62-year-old woman killed after threatening officer with scissors
Written by Caitlin McGlade | | news@toledofreepress.comA female police officer shot a 62-year-old woman described by police as “schizophrenic” yesterday after she brandished a pair a sewing scissors and refused to cooperate, threatening to kill the officer.
Officer Diane Chandler, a 33-year-old patrol officer certified with crisis intervention training, shot Linda Hicks multiple times, killing her instantly, said Chief of Police Michael Navarre at a press conference today.
Four bullets were found in Hicks’ body, including two in her head. Navarre said he could not verify exactly how many times Chandler shot Hicks because one of the bullets struck the scissor blades and fragmented.
Chandler and Officer Rebecca Kenney rushed to the scene after the police station received a phone call at about 8 p.m. Monday concerning Hicks possessing a weapon, he said.
When the two arrived, Hicks lay on her bed and refused to remove her arms from beneath her pillow. Kenney attempted to deploy her Taser but the cartridge malfunctioned so she had to use the device in drive-stun mode by placing it against Hicks’ flesh, Navarre said.
Hicks got off the bed and said “I’m going to kill you or you’re going to have to kill me,” and raised her scissors. Chandler then fired her gun, Navarre said.
Hicks, diagnosed with schizophrenia, depression and hypertension, lived in a group home at 1321 Fernwood Ave. and had not taken her medication that day, Navarre said, quoting caretaker Tanya Murphy.
“(Chandler) thought her life was in danger,” Navarre said, adding that he could not comment as to whether he thought the shooting was justified.
Hicks’ death marks the fifth one this year caused by police action, Navarre said. Between this year’s lay-offs and a seemingly more “brazen” offender population, he added the police force has an increasingly more difficult duty.
“It’s a difficult job out there,” Navarre said. “Officers are being stretched to the limit.”
Chandler’s case will be brought before the Fire Arms Review Board for investigation, Navarre said. Prosecutor Julia Bates or an assistant prosecutor will also decide if the case needs a grand jury within a few weeks, he added.
Felt threatened by scissors heh? Two 1200 M.P.H., bullits to the face heh ? No warning shots or maybe , a bullit to her leg to immobilize her ? Sure, I’m second guessing however…if a trained policeman cannot take control of an emaciated mental case armed with only scissors, maybe another vocation is worth considering. I say this knowing that the police take martial arts training…it would’ve worked for me…very easily !
This comment was posted on December 15th, 2009 at 2:20 pmShe went at the officer with an object capable of either killing or creating great bodily harm to the officer. Clearly a justified shooting. Don’t bring up warning shots or shooting in the leg, that is not trained in any police academy, you shot to stop the threat, whether that be to the chest or the head, they are not trained to Hollywood shoot like Ty Coon was suggesting. Leave the warning shots and shooting a leg or arm in the movies where it belongs, that is not real life.
This comment was posted on December 15th, 2009 at 3:45 pmWhen I first read the headline I thought, Everyone has the right to defend themself from someone with a deadly wepon. regardless of that persons age, gender or mental state. But to shoot her that many times?(and twice in the head?) That officer was not trying just to stop Hicks. She lost her cool and ment to kill her. Chandler and Navarre should admit it… and stop resisting!
This comment was posted on December 15th, 2009 at 3:47 pmThere is absolutely no reason for any officer anywhere to shot a 62-year-old woman in the head twice. Especially when that 62-year-old woman has a mental illness. Why do we let the police get away with this? What is wrong with our system? How can any of us feel safe? Any idiot with a baggage could shot you in the head and say it was in self-defense, and get away with it (literally). Where is the outrage? Where is the justice? They need to put her underneath the jail for this despicable action. We can’t let them get away with this one. We must put an end to this. Police protect their “own”. They know that this shooting was not justified, but watch them defend her actions. The culture in police departments across the country is conducive with this behavior. I will not stand for this and will you stand with me against this justified murderer?
This comment was posted on December 15th, 2009 at 3:47 pmTy Coon, you obviously have no idea what potential damage a pair of scissors can do. They are no different than any other edged-weapon or knife. Give me a pair of scissors and we will see how well your martial arts do for you.
This comment was posted on December 15th, 2009 at 4:28 pmWell then Ty Coon why don’t you leave your name/number with the police and they can just call you to the scene to disarm mental patients with edged weapons. Your a tool….
This comment was posted on December 15th, 2009 at 4:46 pmTy Coon are you crazy? Your suggesting that the Police should go hand to hand with a person armed with a tool that can kill them after a tazer failed. Also, just because someone is a mental case doesn’t mean their emaciated. On the contrary, their usually extremely strong. Police do not train to take leg shots and if she had, it probably would have severed the femoral artery causing her to bleed to death. Police also do not train to fire “warning shots”. Your watching entirely too much T.V., and if your so great and well trained in Martial Arts, then why dont you apply for a career in Law Enforcement. Then we’d all see if you would be willing to gamble your life by going hand to hand against lethal force. Yes, I said lethal force because scissors are the same as a knife and can kill you. Lethal force gets met by Lethal Force, period! Until you become better informed on “Real” police tactics maybe you should hold your ignorant comments.
This comment was posted on December 15th, 2009 at 5:21 pmPolice don’t shoot to warn, and they don’t shoot to wound. If you threaten an armed person, police or otherwise, with an edged weapon (especially while shouting that you’re going to kill them), you should expect to get shot. It’s sad that there are people who learn everything they know from movies and television.
This comment was posted on December 15th, 2009 at 6:18 pmI’d rather see this headline than one that read 62 year old woman kills officer with scissors.
This comment was posted on December 15th, 2009 at 6:36 pmYou have obviously never attempted to fight an Emotionally Disturbed person, who quite often are on drugs, whether it be prescribed or illicit. I have two kids and wife I’m going home to at the end of my shift. This officer did what she had to to keep herself and her partner safe. Obviously someone else was threatened by her or they wouldn’t have called the police. In case you aren’t aware, more people are killed yearly with knives or sharp objects than by handguns. After you go to the police academy and work the street a while then you can play monday morning quarter back.
This comment was posted on December 15th, 2009 at 6:54 pmTy Coon, You have no idea what your talking about. Good job officer, you go home to your family! I wish you the best as you deal with this and prepare to serve your community in the near future.
This comment was posted on December 15th, 2009 at 6:57 pmOfficer Chandler, you did what you were supposed to do. Too many people under estimate people of older age, but if you did not take the appropriate action, you could have been killed, and your weapon could have been used against others. Ty Coon, if this posting of yours is serious, your an idiot. I would love to see your martial arts against a mental with a pair of scissors. I feel for Hicks’ family, but I’m happy that Officer Chandler was not injured.
This comment was posted on December 15th, 2009 at 6:57 pmI congratulate the officer for being able to go home to her family. Her training paid off. The comment posted by Ty Coon was completely off base and out of line. Police are not trained to use warning shots. Where do you suppose those shots would have landed once they were used to “warn” the subject not kill anyone. Plus, based upon the printed story, this appeared to have been a situuation that evolved quickly. This officer used deadly force to stop deadly force; unfortunately, this is part of a difficult job the officer is trained to do. Officers are not trained to use martial arts to disarm subjects with deadly weapons, to do so would be foolish and possibly fatal to the officer. The officer will have to live forever with the thoughts of whether or not she made the right decision. The last thing this officer needs is an uneducated and untrained opinion given by a person who believes what he/she sees in the movies. Again, the full story is never printed so don’t make your opinion based on it. If I’m ever faced with a subject bent on killing me with scissors, I hope this officer is there to help.
This comment was posted on December 15th, 2009 at 7:00 pmOkay, some of the responses on her are just stupid. Ty Coon, if someone is standing 15 feet away from you with a knife, or in this case siccors, they can kill you before you can draw your gun. And I don’t think the officer really cares if it was a genuis or mental case that is trying to kill her, dead is dead. Good job the officer in this case, I commend her for her good decision making and shooting. The rest of you that bad mouth her actions sit at home all day never putting yourselves at risk.
This comment was posted on December 15th, 2009 at 7:07 pmty coon – you are clearly uneducated in police operations, especially when a deadly threat is present. we aren’t trained to give warning shots nor do we shoot the legs. we shoot center mass as many times as necessary to stop the threat.
justified shoot without a doubt. hope the officer doing well
This comment was posted on December 15th, 2009 at 7:14 pmWTF, who told you police take marshal arts training? You know since your so sure our job is easy maybe you should pick up an application for employment. So sick of fools second guessing the police, guess if she’d been threatening you with those scissors you wouldn’t have called the police. Before you judge an officer pull your head out of your butt and get the facts, not all of us are as good as you obviously think you are.
This comment was posted on December 15th, 2009 at 7:14 pmWHY IN THE WORLD SHOULD THE OFFICER JUST STAND THERE AND PERMIT SELF TO BE ATTACKED WITH SHARP INSTRUMENT. IF THE WOMAN WAS NOT OUT OF CONTROL, WHY DID THEFACILITY CALL FOR POLICE INTERVENTION? IF THE LADY WASIN CONTROL, WHY WAS HER LOVING FAMILY NOT TAKING CARE OF HER?
This comment was posted on December 15th, 2009 at 7:19 pmKeep your head up Chandler sounds like you deployed all options first. These so called martial arts experts like Ty Bo Ty Coon can try walking in our footsteps sometime. Stay Safe.
This comment was posted on December 15th, 2009 at 7:20 pmWhat is the difference between scissors and a knife? Why should the officer have fired off “warning shots” or an immobilizing shot to the leg? The female had raised scissors to the officer and stated that she was going to kill the officer or the officer was going to have to kill her… IMO she was bought and paid for at that point.
This comment was posted on December 15th, 2009 at 8:15 pmTo “Ty Coon,” you obviously have no idea what you are talking about. This is not the wild west nor is the officer Chuck Norris. A “warning shot” could come down and strike an innocent person, and an “immobilizing shot to the leg” does not mean that the threat is gone. You show your ignorance well, my friend. God bless the officer and family of the woman killed, tough situation for all involved…
Ty Coon, Law Enforcement Officers are taught very rudimentary self defense tactics any advanced training has to paid for out of their own pockets. As far as shooting someone in the leg they are trained to shoot center mass which is in the torso. Research has shown that people involved in shootings fixate on the weapon being deployed against them. As you read the scissors were struck so obviously they were being held in a high threatening manner. You also read that she shrugged off a drive stun from a Taser. So that basically proves that your “emaciated mental case”, your words not mine, was not so harmless. The most dangerous people to deal with are people who arementaly ill but I am sure you are personally aware of that. Bottom line it does not matter how old you are or how small you are if you have hands and there is a weapon in them you are a threat. The only person in this world that knows how severe the threat was is the officer that dealt with it. So Mr. Ty Coon why don’t you get off your “Monday Morning QB Lazy boy” and see what you might be able to do for your community besides trying to cause controversy in a situation you obviously know nothing about.
This comment was posted on December 15th, 2009 at 8:28 pmTy Coon: you are an idiot with obviously no training or EXPERIENCE as a police officer on the street. Keep living in your Hollywood dreamland of kung fu moves and how “bad” you are. Suit up and do the job yourself or shut your damn mouth. You were not there, you don’t know the circumstances. The Police are not required to sacrifice their lives to be kinder and gentler. Grandma set the stage by presenting the circumstance and the scissors in a threatening measure. The officer responded to that threat. She tried verbal skills, that didn’t work, she tried the taser, It didn’t work. How long to you go on? Think about it, does grandma just stand there until you get it right or are you under pressure (of losing your life) to act very quickly in a high stress scenario.
This comment was posted on December 15th, 2009 at 8:28 pmYou should be thankful for people like this officer. They actually respond and go into harms way, so knuckleheads like you can stand around (safe) to do your second guessing.
I make the above comment realizing that taking another life should NEVER be taken lightly, but as the Police, you must be ready to respond to lethal force with lethal force. No one goes into law enforcement with a goal of killing people, especially an old lady.
This comment was posted on December 15th, 2009 at 8:47 pmThis was a tragic circumstance, but a circumstane beyond that officer’s control.
DaWuan, really no reason? How about that she attacked a police officer with a deadly weapon! Who doesn’t know that is likely to get you killed? you seem to put alot into the fact that this woman is 62 yrs old. I don’t care if a suspect is 22, 62, or 92, a deadly threat is a deadly threat and has to be treated accordingly.
it is tragic that this woman lost her life, and my heart truly goes out to her family BUT that doesn’t mean that the officer should have let herself be seriously injured or killed. In this country anyone has the right to defend themselves be they police officers, butchers, bakers or candlestick makers.
Ty Coon first off it’s BULLET with an E not an I. That’s all I can say to you. it’s pretty clear you are an idiot.
Officer Chandler, enjoy your Christams with your family YOU EARNED IT!
This comment was posted on December 15th, 2009 at 9:11 pmI am a police officer and have never known any police officer who had to use deadly force who was not emotionally affected by it. Killing another person is never taken lightly. Officer Chandler did what she had to do during a rapidly developing situation. All law enforcement officers know how deadly edged weapons are. You were not there so you nay sayers are in no position to judge this officer’s reaction. Too many of us have died and Officer Chandler lived to return to her family.
This comment was posted on December 15th, 2009 at 9:51 pmHey fellas, Ty Coon shows how stupid he is when it comes to law enforcement. I have never heard of a bullet going 1200 miles per hour. That could only be said by an idiot. Anyone with any brains when it come to firearms knows that the speed a projectile from a weapon is measured in feet per second, not miles per hour.
This comment was posted on December 15th, 2009 at 10:21 pmSounds like his police training is watching reruns of Reno 911.
To the Officer who was tasked with the life or death decision to squeeze that trigger, good shoot! Do not for one second re-think or doubt your actions! You tried to deploy your taser, it failed you, therefore you had no other option.
To the pinhead “know it alls” I don’t see you out there day in and day out risking your menial little lives while carry a gun and a badge!
This comment was posted on December 15th, 2009 at 10:38 pmTyCoon…
This comment was posted on December 16th, 2009 at 12:06 amWhat a buffoon! Stand someplace and let me come at you on Christmas Eve with a sharp pair of scissors. I would bet my next check you would send rounds down-range. The officer was COMPLETELY justified in her shoot. Deranged individuals do not have the same ability as others to determine if their actions are right or wrong. I, for one, would not stake MY life on the opportunity to convince her otherwise.
For everyone complaining about the officer shooting the woman in the head twice, or firing to many rounds.
This comment was posted on December 16th, 2009 at 1:08 amMaybe you should stop second guessing well traine officer’s who do a job you obvously can’t. I am willing to be that see may not have even tried to shoot her in thee head. In case you didn’t lnow when someone gets shot they eventually fall, and in doing so bullets that originally would have hit thee torso may possibly hit the hed as they fall.
And for the two many rounds fired; that is dumb. You shoot until the threat is gone. People don’t actually fly 10 feet backward when a bullet hits them.
Good job to officer chandler, and every other Toledo officer.
DaWuan, here’s how you can feel safe around cops: don’t try to kill them with sharp objects. If someone came at you with a pair of scissors and you had a gun, are you just going to ninja chop your way out of danger? They need to stop letting you use the computer at the library.
This comment was posted on December 16th, 2009 at 2:58 amFor those of you who have never walked in the shoes of the police you should not comment on what it is they are required to do and also what they must deal with.
On a daily basis they deal with those who think of them as Justifiable Murders, out to unload their guns on people because they are having a bad day, or that they are healers and the police can magically make those who are suffering from serious mental illness instantly sane. They can make is so that 62 year old people are not a threat. The there are those who think there can be no justification for shooting anyone 62 years old.
Basically what I am saying is they deal with some of the most moronic people any community can serve up, day in day out. 365 days a year 24 hours a day.
As much as some of you armchair Chuck Norris’ and Johnny Cochrans’ think police should deal with only the least amount of force they can and needlessly place their lives in jeopardy that is not the real world, not that you would have any idea of what the real world is, as you have not been a part of it anytime recently.
NO, the officer should not have shot this woman in the leg, NO this officer should not have fired warning shots, NO police should not attempt to disarm people with edged weapons by use of “Martial Arts”.NO is doent mean anything there were tow shots that hit this woman in the head.
YES what this officer was FORCED TO DEAL WITH was both tragic and JUSTIFIABLE. YES the use of force was proportionate and reasonable. YES these incidents are tragic for the officers also.
May God Bless the officers involved and I too am glad we are not reading the story from the usual perspective that some of those seem to think is how it should go, ” 2 Officers Stabbed to Death by 62 Year Old with Scissors”.
God Bless those who stand to fight and defend those who are defenseless and cannot fight for themselves.
God Bless you Officer Chandler
This comment was posted on December 16th, 2009 at 7:21 amIt’s nice that a bunch of cops ran to their computers and tried to defend another cop’s actions. Why is this not surprising? And another point, I am very educated. I have a lot more education than any officer and my position carries more prestige. Don’t try to attack my education because I disagree with the cop’s actions. Look in the mirror. They need to start giving guns and badges to more stable, educated individuals who aren’t dying to fire their weapon.
This comment was posted on December 16th, 2009 at 8:04 amDaWuan,
I must apologize for my uneducated brethern in blue. From reading your post, I can see that you do have a higher status in our society and are way more educated that any ole police officer. I geez just this sentence alone convinced me of your higher education. “Any idiot with a baggage could shoot you in the head.” I have found my baggage very useful in my career…..I just pull it out with my identification and show it to the perp and yell..”Stop police!” Yes sir, that baggage will do it every time. You sir appear to be a very angry man. Might I suggest an anger management course that you can pay for with your obvious millions. Maybe you need to look up the meaning of “Functional Illiterate.”
This comment was posted on December 16th, 2009 at 9:13 amDaWuan, let me guess your real name is Al Sharpton or Jesse Jackson. You are too stupid to know what you are talking about. As far as your education, you are talking like that of a sixth grade education.
This comment was posted on December 16th, 2009 at 9:27 amI doubt you, the general public, has ever dealt with a violent “schizophrenic”. Schizophrenics can be very dangerous, not only to themselves but to others. This officer acted according to her training.
Everyone wants to Monday morning quarterback this incident, but, the fact is you weren’t there so you don’t know how violent the woman was acting towards officers. She had already refused to comply with their orders so the officer used the next level on force, her taser. When the taser didn’t work and the woman presented more of a threat the officer, once again, acted accordingly.
You people need to quit talking about “warning shots” and “shoot’em in the leg”. That is all made for movie BS that NO police officer does. This is a justified killing and no excessive force was used.
Officer Chandler, thanks for a job well done.
This comment was posted on December 16th, 2009 at 9:39 amTag teaming me because I disagree with you is not going to make this murder justifiable. Try to think outside the box. Does the story even add up? All cops are not bad, but the bad ones make them all look bad because all cops take up for other cops. I corrected that mistake in my second posting. I wasn’t writing a thesis. Relax
This comment was posted on December 16th, 2009 at 10:04 amThe police cannot go around shooting everyone that didn’t comply with their orders. When an officer fires their weapon, it needs to absolutely be the last resort. Every officer needs to value and respect the life of every citizen that they are paid to protect. Every murder that the police make in the line of duty is not justifiable because they are the police.
This comment was posted on December 16th, 2009 at 10:10 amTy Coon!…What is your problem man?! Seriously? Warning shots? As law enforcement, we dont give “warning shots”. By the way, she did try to use her TASER, but it malfunctioned. She tried to use less than lethal force, but when it failed she took it to the next level to protect herself and the other officers. I would love to see you try to disarm a crazy woman with a pair of scissors! You think you can take care of a woman who doesnt care about herself or anyone else armed ONLY with SCISSORS!…try to do our job and see how far you make it! You say shes armed only with scissors like the scissors are a stick of butter and they wouldn’t harm anyone. Stick to your day job, and let us do ours!
This comment was posted on December 16th, 2009 at 10:41 amOfficer Chandler: Judge – Jury – Executioner
This comment was posted on December 16th, 2009 at 10:50 amA true american hero.
To add to my other post, this one goes out to DaWuan! You think that police officers aren’t educated?! Have you spent some time in the halfway house?! You have no idea what it takes to be in Law Enforcement; the hours upon hours of training, that we must pay for out of our own pockets by the way, that it takes to keep us up to date…and thats not including any EXTRA training! You think your so educated, but yet you have your facts all wrong! Get out from behind the safety of your desk and put on a Uniform and BADGE and see what happens. And yes, we do back up our own! Once in the brotherhood always in the brotherhood!!
*As for the officer, good shoot and Merry Chirstmas!
**PS- I hate ignorant people who think they know what they’re talking about when it comes to law enforcement!
This comment was posted on December 16th, 2009 at 11:03 amHere’s an Idea for you DaWaun..since you are so educated, and obviously live in a glass house, how about you never call for help again. Post your address in the local newspaper, let every person in your neighborhood know that you are opposed to Police protection, and see what happens to you. When the local thugs come to rob you, or the local nutcase comes up screaming, “I’M GONNA KILL YOU,” just tell them your don’t believe them, and talk them down. good luck with that, and enjoy the results.
Good Job Officer. Sorry you have to deal with the aftermath, but it does get easier after time.
This comment was posted on December 16th, 2009 at 11:03 amDaWuan, if you are so educated as you claim, and think you know how to handle deadly force situations, then get off your ass and go down and go to the academy, and get a real education. They are always looking for people, it’s just are you man enough to get off your ass and do it, or are you what I suspect, someone that is tough on talk, but not on action. Go out and learn what it’s like in the field when somebody comes at you with an edged weapon or fires a gun at you, live ammunition not blanks. Oh I forgot, you must be one of these anti-gun liberals that scream about a gun unless it is yours.
This comment was posted on December 16th, 2009 at 11:20 amDaWuan, while you may indeed be educated, your initial post was absolutely dripping with hate and visceral. I’d also be cautious about “a lot more education than any officer”. I’ve met several officers with multiple PhDs and even MDs who have become police officers.
“They need to start giving guns and badges to more stable, educated individuals who aren’t dying to fire their weapon.” Do you really not know the process to become a police officer? Beyond the physical fitness and intelligence tests, you also must pass background testing, polygraph screening and psychological profile. Many agencies now require more than an associate’s degree from their recruits.
After the hire, the agency exposes themselves financially whenever force is used. Anyone who is even slapped has a lawyer salivating at the thought of the settlement the government may give rather than go to trial. Not because the officer did anything wrong but because it is so much cheaper than court.
You read the above article and for whatever reason start with the assumption “police are bad”. I can’t argue that society in general doesn’t need people like you to keep us all honest. You’re watching and that’s good. You may, however get further not blasting away with your words like you claim the police are doing with their guns.
This comment was posted on December 16th, 2009 at 12:03 pmThis is clearly a justified shoot. I am not an officer but people like DaWuan (educated? Really?)& Ty Coon clearly have no experience facing a disturbed person with a bladed weapon. Nice work officer. (and bullets don’t travel at 1200 mph.)
This comment was posted on December 16th, 2009 at 12:05 pmMy guess is DaWuan is someone who is just angry because they’ve been issued too many tickets. That, or he is someone who is just seeking attention on the internet.
This comment was posted on December 16th, 2009 at 12:16 pmI am a CIT Officer who also happens to be an expert in martial arts. Officer Chandler based on the information given “Good Job” Hang in there you must be going through a hard time. No Officer that I know of ever goes to work hoping they get to fire their gun.
DaWuan, When cops refer to you being uneducated we aren’t referring to your level of schooling. We are talking about your know nothing level of education when it comes to Police tactics.
This comment was posted on December 16th, 2009 at 12:19 pmI cannot believe the shills for the police on this site. One comment by TyCoon and you all go ballistic, hysterically defending an asshole cop who obviously totally lost it and shot a woman at least 4 times at close range.
I have come to the conclusion from reading more than one of these types of blogs that you jerk cop supporters are either paid to do this or are completely brainwashed by the government education you received, or are cops yourselves who are trying to influence public opinion. Nothing else explains the sheer overpowering number of comments which support this asshole cop, and other cops just like her.
Shame on you all. A 62-year old woman with scissors? Are you nuts? What about just backing off and leaving the room? Are you all insane?
This comment was posted on December 16th, 2009 at 3:08 pmDid none of you defending the cops read the story? They tasered this 62 year old woman for not getting off her bed. Of course she got angry and reacted in self-defense. She was then shot in a continued act of aggression started by the person that called the police and continued by the police.
Do you actually believe that she said “I’m going to kill you or you’re going to have to kill me.”? That’s awfully convenient.
This comment was posted on December 16th, 2009 at 3:18 pmLeave the room?!?! That makes so much sense! If some deranged old person starts trying to stab me with scissors, that’s exactly what I hope the officers do!…idiot.
This comment was posted on December 16th, 2009 at 3:28 pmI question anyone’s humanity that actually wants to be a cop these days.
This comment was posted on December 16th, 2009 at 3:29 pmI might be completely off topic here.. but several things come to mind… How were crazy individuals dealt with before, like 50 years ago–way before tazers and such. Also, does anyone know of particularly strong 62 year old women that can’t be taken by two officers?? And if she was that deadly, why not back off and ask for backup?? I guess the quick answer is a bullet to the head? You know it saddens me that wild animals sometimes get a better shot than humans. Which brings another thought–why not use a tranquiler gun? I wonder if those have a better record than tazers.
and now… cue the insults!!! (b/c there sure seem to be a lot of them on this comment board.)
This comment was posted on December 16th, 2009 at 3:40 pm@DP
Yeah, it’s called running. It’s saved lots of lives in the past. I hope the officers could outrun a 62 yr old woman.
This comment was posted on December 16th, 2009 at 3:42 pmIt seems as though T.F.P., is not allowing me a defense, not that one is needed or required. It’s odd though that, as these unionized halfwits bellow. And, as I defend a sickly woman who was killed , I get censored…twice . So, let’s try again ! The “shills ” above as Jennifer ,aptly speaks of, must know more about these two police than they are letting on. Their ‘jackets’ are no doubt full of negative grades in every aspect of policing…why else would these adolescents be childlike in their screaming ,hissing venomous vitriol ?! You doth protest toooo much my children ! Political correctness, is the reason this lady is dead ! These two females were so far over their heads it’s become once again, a DEADLY JOKE ! And all the childish name-calling isn’t going to bring this lady back to life. SOMETHING, you vile, miserable fools haven’t mentioned AT ALL ! So, take your sexual predator cops, your stinking drunk cops, your worthless doper cops, your striking cops ( Recall the late 70’s strike, I DO !!), your cops who cover up the murder of a Nun, and the rest of you very BRAVE poster cops and CRY ME A BLOODY RIVER !!! P.S. Joe, I could disarm you BLINDFOLDED !! And P.S. to Okiefuzz, how do you spell Christmas… and you call me an idiot ?! I guess that makes you a midget minded poltroon, then doesn’t it ?! Oooooh, SCISSORS, and BLAM BLAM …BLAM BLAM…police training, yeah riiiiight !
This comment was posted on December 16th, 2009 at 3:48 pmI question anyone who wants to vilify the very people who are willing to risk their lives to defend you.
This comment was posted on December 16th, 2009 at 3:51 pmIf I was the caretaker of this patient and hurt her in anyway trying to get those scissors I would be going to prison.
This comment was posted on December 16th, 2009 at 3:53 pmBy the way whoever left those scissors out for the patient to get is in a heap of trouble!
This comment was posted on December 16th, 2009 at 3:55 pmI’m not a cop,have no training as a cop and am totally unqualified to comment as anything but a citizen. This story indicates that the woman was in bed when the officers arrived and the situation was escalated to a confrontation by the officers. No mention of any tactic other than force is found in this narrative.I believe the shooting may well have been justified . It doesn’t sound like it though. If Chandler was able to get close enough to manually press her little torture device against the woman’s flesh without fear of being killed at that moment, all that horse hockey kind of gets plowed under. Honestly, the comments on this page defending this shooting on the few facts available in the story paint a picture of the most cowardly group I have ever imagined.
This comment was posted on December 16th, 2009 at 4:01 pmI have a question for all you defenders of the police officer. What if a PRIVATE individual shot someone four times and the person was carrying scissors?
People who shoot intruders are regularly prosecuted and imprisoned, and the law pretty much outlaws self-defense. So, why should standards for police officers be lower than they are for the rest of us?
This comment was posted on December 16th, 2009 at 4:01 pmYes DuWuan, if these two ‘highly trained law enforcers ‘, would have had a FLAME THROWER … they could have been judge, jury , executioner, and CREMATOR !! I love the absolute lie that cops are not trained to shoot to wound / immobilize. What the above fabricators are trying to get us to swallow is that, when EVER they pull their weapon…it is 100% , SHOOT TO KILL ?! Yeah riiiiiight ?! And, you government employees expect anyone to believe THAT ??!! Beam me up Scotty…
This comment was posted on December 16th, 2009 at 4:02 pm@Average Joe:
I question everything.
This comment was posted on December 16th, 2009 at 4:02 pmThe officer initiated the force with her taser. She was obviously close enough to use her taser in “drive stun” mode. I’m guessing that there were probably other objects in the room that could have been used to restrain the woman before using the taser. The OFFICER escalated the event and put herself in a position were she was forced to shoot this woman. It should have NEVER gotten to that point. As to the other point that officers receive only “rudimentary training,” then why in the hell are these people allowed to be police officers if they don’t have the neccesary training?
This comment was posted on December 16th, 2009 at 4:16 pmAnother ‘hero’ in blue commits murder, and all the sheeple applaud. How is anyone with a license to kill as long as the can claim they feared for their life risking anything? If you outgun and outnumber a 62 year old woman you are not in danger. Maybe a crazy person cuts with some scissors, maybe you get stabbed. Go to the hospital, get a vacation, isn’t that what police are paid to do.
Don’t be fooled, the police are not required to risk life or limb for mundanes like us and if you want to survive NEVER call the police for ‘help’.
This comment was posted on December 16th, 2009 at 4:30 pmWhat do all you expect from cops today? When you call the cops, you can expect someone to die since most cops are nothing more than large sniveling cowardly blobs of donut fat. They lie and steal and kill citizens with impunity.
This comment was posted on December 16th, 2009 at 4:32 pmI remember from one of my law classes that when using deadly force to protect yourself, it must be established that the threat itself is also deadly.
How does a pair of ordinary scissors represent such a threat, especially to a trained police officer who by the very nature of her work, must be willing to put herself in harms way?
Aren’t police officers trained to first use non-lethal, non-escalating force to protect themselves and others? If so, why the use of a taser at all, prompting the escalation? These things have been nothing but a plauge and assault upon our society.
This comment was posted on December 16th, 2009 at 4:50 pmHey, the next time any of you donkeys needs help, because someone is breaking into your little safe warm home in the middle of the night, because you all HATE cops so much, maybe you should call a gang banger or better yet another hippie liberal loser such as yourselves, and maybe they will come help you!!! DOUBT IT.
You A**holes can hate the police all you want to, you can say what you want about us being stupid, which keep in mind, I work with other Troopers who have masters degrees, but I guess they didn’t earn those degrees like you yuppies did at Yale or Harvard.
You speak about our job like you know something about it. None of you pathetic sorry excuses for human beings have any right to judge this Officer. Every night she goes to work, she puts her life on the line for idiots like you. Yet you mock her. I truly feel sorry for all of you, and I hope and pray that you one day have to be helped by a cop, it would be great for your self righteous know it all egos.
On an end note, the funny thing that I can tell about all of you morons is that you probably have either been arrested or ticketed for being a retard and now you hate the police.
Guess what…We hate you too! Have a nice day sir or mam.
This comment was posted on December 16th, 2009 at 5:10 pmIf that cop was able to actually touch her with a stun gun while she lay face down on her bed, someone also would have been able to inject her with a tranquilizer. Instead the cop injected her with hot lead.
This comment was posted on December 16th, 2009 at 5:22 pm“I question anyone who wants to vilify the very people who are willing to risk their lives to defend you.”
Spoken like a dyed-in-the-wool booklicker. Where did this blind obidience to power-tripping bureaucrats come from?
The cops vilify themselves. Cops get paid vacations for doing what would probably land me in jail for decades. Pointing their villainy out is hardly a vice.
There is ZERO excuse for shooting this woman. They were fore-warned about the situation. Why weren’t they prepared for it? Why cannot TWO “trained” police officers deal with one old woman without killing her?
AND this woman has been “specially-trained” for crisis intervention! What a sick, pathetic joke.
I guess that 10yr old kid in Pueblo and his family should be glad he didn’t have Officer Chandler present.
After all, a metal pipe is a deadly weapon too.
This comment was posted on December 16th, 2009 at 5:34 pmNon lethal? and leave her alive to sue you? What they teach police is: “search them, beat them, taze them, kill them. But make sure you say you were scared they had a gun, or that your dog made a face”
This comment was posted on December 16th, 2009 at 5:34 pm…a 33-year-old patrol officer certified with crisis intervention training…
I wonder how this training class went?
CRISIS INTERVENTION TRAINING
This comment was posted on December 16th, 2009 at 5:48 pmStep 1. Tazor the victim
Step 2. Shoot the victim in the face
No one seems to notice that the female was a diagnosed schizphrenic that had not taken her medication, and depressed. I can think of many people who are in just fine shape at 62, you are assuming that she is a 90 lb weakling, could it be possible that she is in as good as physical shape as Dee Lazard, she is a NPC bodybuilder at 64. I would wager that there are several hundred other women over the age of 60 that could easily kill with a pair of scissors. That 98 year old woman did a fine job strangling her 100 year old room mate, but I assume that was someone elses fault. First off its a proven fact that there are more emtionally disturbed people, there were also no group homes years ago, if you had a mental illnes you were institutionalized or cared for by family. Contrary to your belief the officers on this forum are merely standing up because they know that the liberal media and many groups of people are well known for attacking the police no matter what they do, had those two officers backed away and someone else gotten hurt, you would be calling them cowards and scraming that they should have shot her.
This comment was posted on December 16th, 2009 at 5:49 pmOnce Again: NEVER Call the Police for “Help”
This comment was posted on December 16th, 2009 at 6:17 pmhttp://www.lewrockwell.com/blog/lewrw/archives/44934.html#more-44934
To the cop haters, Cops are dads and moms, combat vets from all branches of service. We are former lawyers and bankers, we come from all walks of life. We do not take this job in the hopes of ending someones life, we would rather help. Sure, like every job in life, there are some bad apples. Stop hating and maybe get to know one of us, see what we have to do day in and day out. God Bless!
This comment was posted on December 16th, 2009 at 6:20 pmIt is very interesting to me how so many citizens are willing to go to such extremes to defend the actions of the police when, at this time, no full, complete, factual investigation has even been undertaken. How many witnesses have been questioned under oath? Have the actual scissors been produced? How big, or sharp were they? Were they really, in fact, sewing scissors? Why were the officers so quick to use tasers, which seems to have provoked the situation? The ubiquitous use of tasers seems to be a consistent factor in more and more civilian deaths at the hands of an increasingly militarized police force.
I was just thinking what would have been the legal outcome, and the citizen reaction, if the shoe was on the other foot? What if another resident tried to get the alleged offender to calm down, and in the process tased her? Then, when the offender attacked, the resident had to shoot her in alleged self defense? I can just see the police and prosecutors ruling that this was not legitimate self defense, that this was an unlawful “escalation” of force, and that therefore the resident would be charged and indicted for murder.
They would get a lot more support, and have a lot more legitimacy, if they were not so hypocritical and just applied the law consistently to themselves as well as the citizenry.
This comment was posted on December 16th, 2009 at 6:30 pmWell, Toledo is another city to cross off of my list of safe places to visit or do business in.
This comment was posted on December 16th, 2009 at 7:01 pmThis shooting was WRONG, period. If officers are not trained to handle someone with scissors in a different way, or are not taught to shoot a warning shot or in the leg first, then the correct conclusion is not to use that as justification, but to add that to the training.
This comment section has been flooded by propaganda from the police and their union. They have FLOODED the comments seciton with messages that appear to be from average citizens, but their messages all carry the same “talking points.” This shooting was wrong. Cops are overpaid for a job that is not even CLOSE to the top of the most-dangerous job list.
Do you know why cops are taught to shoot to kill and not fire warning shots? It is because their leaders think that most of them are too stupid to make their own judgement calls, and clearly, they are correct.
Cops have become so self absorbed and deluded that they have lost the ability to question themselves or show any humility whatsoever. They are little more than government troops on our streets now.
This comment was posted on December 16th, 2009 at 7:09 pm“Guess what…We hate you too! Have a nice day sir or mam.” – was one of the messages from a POLICE OFFICER on here.
I think my point just made itself.
By the way, the next time someone is breaking into my home, don’t worry, the police will be the LAST people I call. First, I will shoot the person myself, then I will call a lawyer, and then I will have him/her call the cops.
This comment was posted on December 16th, 2009 at 7:12 pmSorry moderator, just one more comment please.
One officer stated “Ty Coon shows how stupid he is when it comes to law enforcement. I have never heard of a bullet going 1200 miles per hour. That could only be said by an idiot.”
To the officer who said that bullets do not travel at 1200mph. You are incorrect. A handgun bullet travelling at 2000 feet per second, is moving at about 1400mph. I can see that police training definitely makes you more knowledeable.
This comment was posted on December 16th, 2009 at 7:21 pmHmmmm… CT Trooper, where IS your professionalism? Your attitude and indignity of cops not being worshipped by the general public pretty much says it all.
Chandler is the one who escalated the encounter by tazing the woman. They KNEW she was mentally unstable and used unnecessary force to begin with.
I am not a bootlicker and will think long and hard before I call a cop for anything. Years ago I would have been championing the cop but no more.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9eIlr0UGcI0
This comment was posted on December 16th, 2009 at 7:27 pmWhat is the deal with all of these cops telling us not to call the police if we need help? We pay your salary, and you are paid to serve and protect. We have the right to our own opinions. I heard the lies, but I don’t believe this 62 year old woman popped up from off the bed with scissors in her hand attacking the cops yelling “I’m going to kill you or you better kill me”. Do you hear the hate in these officers’ comments? If you can’t handle the job, find another one. I heard UPS is hiring.
This comment was posted on December 16th, 2009 at 7:32 pmTrooper’s right. None of you know what you’re talking about. If anyone pulls out a pair of scissors and comes at me, I’m not going to scratch my chin and decide what methods can be used to spare their “poor” life while they’re stabbing me in the neck. I don’t care if they’re 12, 21, 40, 62, or 90. I’m going home to my family that night. I have to answer to rational people, not you ignorant pseudo-intellects.
That being said, here’s a few things that need to change:
1. We should refuse to respond when people call about their emotionally-troubled relatives. Supreme Court has said that there’s no Constitutional right to police protection. They’re threatening you? Too bad! Deal with it! If ninja fighting your psychotic kid or grandma who’s armed with scissors is so easy, HAVE AT IT!
2. We should refuse to respond to someone who’s not breaking the law. There’s someone standing on the sidewalk at 2am holding a chainsaw wearing a hockey mask and staring into your window? Well, that’s not against the law. He’s just enjoying his freedom. It’s not a police matter, so YOU feel free to go talk to him.
3. We should stop performing non-essential services like taking missing person complaints. Your wife never came home from work? It’s not illegal to not come home from work! She’s just enjoying her freedom. YOU FIND HER. Not our problem.
For all you idiots saying that the police should have run away, I say they never should have been called to begin with. We’re not here to talk you down or make you feel good. We won’t administer medicine like a “tranquilizer”. When your grandma wigs out, call an ambulance. Maybe they’ll be willing to try and karate chop scissors out of someone’s hand and sedate them.
Stop wasting our time with the B.S. you created and now can’t control.
This comment was posted on December 16th, 2009 at 7:36 pmI wonder why the person in charge of the group home did not call someone for assistance (Ie. Rescue Crisis or Toledo Mental Health Board) when Ms. Hicks refused to take her medication multiple times.
Clearly this 62-year old woman needed constant supervision and could not be cared for by her family.
I also question why scissors were allowed a group home for mental patients. Usually sharp objects, lighters and other items that can hurt someone are taken away.
Blame the facility and not the police who were doing their job.
This comment was posted on December 16th, 2009 at 8:06 pmOnly in America, literally, can a 62 yo woman be shot to death by law enforcement, and then have 100s of worthless people get on a web site and defend this action like it was justified. If cops are trained to shoot to kill in this situation, then the training is faulty. As for the losers who thinks this was justified. FU
This comment was posted on December 16th, 2009 at 10:43 pm@V. Jenks, Jason H – Ditto
The question that seems to be missing in these comments is why did it get the point of shooting her in the first place. If the Officer could get close enough to use her Taser in drive-stun mode, I would think that the two officers could manage to think of some *other* way to deal with her while she still had her hands under the pillow.
This comment was posted on December 16th, 2009 at 10:57 pmWhile I don’t believe anyone of us have the complete story here, but from what the media presents in this article, it sounds like a legally justified shooting. Unfortunate for everyone involved, but justified.
This comment was posted on December 16th, 2009 at 11:19 pmFor everyone here, please moderate your emotional comments until you read the entire report.
For those of you who are angry and hateful toward law enforcement, I am sorry for whatever has led you to feel that way, but I guarantee you most officers are people you would be glad to know.
To the other officers here, don’t let the “haters” get to you. You need to understand most of their ugly comments stem from simple ignorance.
@CT Trooper 436, sorry to call you on the carpet Brother, but you were out of line in your comments. I believe your heart is right, your comments were obviously out of anger. Don’t fall to their level.
To the officers involved, stay strong in the days to come. It sounds as if you did what you had to do, and I would rather be judged by 12, than carried by 6.
May God bless you and yours this Christmas.
Large amounts of research has been completed on the flight or flight response involving Law Enforcement, Military, and even civilians that used deadly force to protect themselves. In almost every case involving a firearm, the person recalled actions performed hours, somtimes days later due to the mind blocking out a adrenaline fueled, high anxiety event. Also, almost every person stated that they only fire a few shots when in most cases the magazine was emptied, or alot more shots were found to have taken place. The fact that the suspect was shot four times doesn’t surprise me and I would be intersted to know how many total shots were fired. My point is, to people unaware of this research, this sounds excessive. But, then again, they have obviously never been in this situation. The two shots that hit the 62 yrd old lady’s head were most likely fired in rapid succesion in less then one second. So dont read this article thinking a head shot was made, then later, they walked up and shot her again. Everyone is entitled to an opinion, but maybe you should educate yourself on high stress reactions and put aside your personal bias against the police before you render a judgement. I happen to be ex military and was in a specialized unit involved in numerous lethal encounters. Now I am in Law Enforcement and have had an opportunity to see for myself the results of an active shooting situation on the psychology of a police officer. I tell other officers to try and understand where the average civilians mindset towards Law Enforcement comes from, especially those with no training or who has been involved in a high stress situation. But, Please, try to understand the Law Enforcement officer’s standpoint as well, and ask yourself, If you were in the same situation, would you risk being fatally stabbed when all your training told you to meet lethal force with lethal force? I encourage all the “police haters” to do your own research and maybe it will provide you with a better understanding of what we deal with. I care about you all, fought for YOU in the military, and continue to serve as a LEO to help where I can, when I can. It’s not US against YOU, know that at least, God Bless you all.
This comment was posted on December 17th, 2009 at 12:57 amThey have this link on policeone.com. Someone in there cop friendly environment told the other cops to voice their opinions to our comments. What a surprise, it wasn’t a coincidence that all of the people were defending a cop shooting mentally ill elderly women in the head. They even made direct comments about me and Ty Coon on their website.
This comment was posted on December 17th, 2009 at 1:30 amHow about a warning shot? How about shooting her in the leg? What a bunch of mopes most of you are! Shoot to kill, that is the motto, if an Officer is confronted with deadly force, not shoot to mame. And as for the mutt that believes LE work is not on the top 5 as one of the most dangerous jobs, you’re just as much as a savage as the rest of the mutants cops deal with everyday. You couldn’t do the job anyway. Scroat!
This comment was posted on December 17th, 2009 at 1:50 amMessage to TyCoon and DaWuan. Police are trained to fire in two round burst and often trained to fire that two round twice. Police are also trained to do their best to go home safely at the end of their shifts. Now for the warning shot, where is that bullet going to land. Can’t float in space forever. If it hits someone you will be back to post about the “stupid cop who fired a warning shot.” Also, just did quick scratch math so numbers may not be perfect but it seems that a bullet going 1200 mph is only traveling around 29 feet per second. I can shoot a bean through a pea shooter faster than that. As for the age and mental condition, she had a deadly weapon. That’s why the cops were called. She intended for someone to die. Someone did. It doesn’t always have to be the cops. The officer did what she had to and it will bother her forever, but she did what she had to. If you two don’t know what your are talking about then join the ranks of Jessie Jackson and Al Sharpton. They don’t know either.
This comment was posted on December 17th, 2009 at 1:58 amI’m with bill, with a huge dose of ‘leave Britney alone’ along with it.
This comment was posted on December 17th, 2009 at 2:14 amI would just like to say… I can see both sides.
But what I would prefer to say is, what is the use, on either side, to be rude and hateful to the opposing view?
Police officers deserve respect inherently, for the job that they do. Are there crooked ones? Of course, they exist in every profession. Give them the benefit of the doubt, and at the very least respect, even if you don’t agree with their position or what they did. You can’t say what you would have done if you were threatened, and you can’t say what really happened in that room, and being angry about it will not change that the woman is dead.
Police Officers: Try to understand it from a civilian’s point of view who has never been in that situation (or anything similar) and do not let it affect you. No one other than a fellow officer will empathize with your career choice, no matter how you try to explain it. You know where you stand, and that is enough. I understand your need to defend your fellow officers though.
Civilians: I appreciate your point of view. I personally hate use of force.
Police Officers: I understand force is sometimes necessary and a tragic aspect of your job. Thank you for bearing that burden so that people like myself do not have to. Thank you for doing your jobs.
This comment was posted on December 17th, 2009 at 2:53 amTired: This is the EXACT point where many citizens disagree. “I’m going home to my family that night.” Think about it, you have just failed your primary job task. That is, you are supposed to risk your life to protect mine. THAT is the POINT. Yes, there is a middle ground and if someone who is breaking the law and pulls a gun on you, you shoot them. If someone is threatening another citizen, you shoot them. If you don’t like this and if your #1 concern is your own safety, at the risk of those you are sworn to protect, then get ANOTHER JOB.
Oh and on #2. No, if they’re not breaking the law, my *opinion* is you should leave them alone.
This comment was posted on December 17th, 2009 at 4:12 amLook people it is quite simple to understand it really is, Police are trainied to respond to deadly force with deadly force..
I would never expect any “citizen” to defend themselves against an attack by a person armed with a deadly weapon (yes scissors are a deadly weapon) without resorting to deadly force so why should the public expect the police to do so.
Police are not PAID to needlessly and stupidly risk their lives and the lives of others. Not using deadly force in this situation would have placed not only the police officers in imminent danger of death or serious bodily injury or placed the others present in such jeapordy also.
Police are required to make decisions in very rapidly evolving, tense and uncertain circumstances and if they dont it may mean their lives or the lives of others.
It is tragic this woman lost her life but it would have been more tragic had she not been stopped and went on to kill not only the police officers, but lets say all those present in the house… What would everyone be screaming about then??? The police not doing their job.
Well they would have only been screaming if others were killed and not just the police officers because it is the police officers job to die for their paychecks, right??
Yes dear Dan Mikolajczyk police are trained to respond as this officer did, no their training is not faulty. What is faulty is that (and to use your term) “LOSERS” like you that think police shouldnt be allowed to use deadly force. You probably think the police should also wait until somebody shoots at them first before firing their weapons..
The sad thing is dear Danny is any police officer who posted on this forum would risk their lives to save yours because that is not only what they do it is what they are. If you were being attacked by ANY armed person, regardless of race, sex, age or national origin. They would risk their lives to try and save you and not even expect a thank you for their efforts.
Yes,Danny boy I am one of those who believe the actions of the police were justified and thank you for your kind offer but I am just fine and frankly your not my type.
Have a nice day.
This comment was posted on December 17th, 2009 at 6:34 amGreat job Ofc. Chandler. A mentally ill person with a deadly weapon is one of the more serious threats I could imagine. They would have no rationale of their actions. This shooting was justified. I feel for the Hick’s family, but if Ofc Chandler had not stopped the threat, her partner or other people may have been injured or killed. Concerning how many shots she took, all I can say is that with that type of threat I don’t think anyone would have stopped until the threat was stopped and if the officer felt that many shots should have been taken then who are we to second guess her? None of us were in that situation. I think it’s horrible when people who do not understand the law and how dangerous a job this can be try to second guess with a warning shot or a shot to the leg. The only purpose of a gun and bullet is to destroy something. Where ever that bullet is put, it will be destroyed. I’m extremely happy the officer went home to her family. I have a relative in law enforcement as well and on two occasions he has almost not come home. I realize what a tragedy this is, but Officer Chandler did her job correctly and I think it’s terrible that ignorant people tell her she did her job wrong. God bless Officer Chandler and her family. Stay Strong and be safe.
This comment was posted on December 17th, 2009 at 8:34 amDoesn’t anyone care about double standards?Since I am a caregiver I will say it again.If I had been the caregiver of this mentally ill patient and hurt her in anyway trying to get those scissors I would be going to prison.Why should the cop be judged by different standards than me just because I am a caregiver and she’s a cop.The rule has always been no harm to the patient.This is state law.I speak of things I know about.I am a caregiver.
This comment was posted on December 17th, 2009 at 9:56 amThis is an ugly situation that should have never got to the unloading of a gun. This quick escalation to tazer, something that has mixed results as seen here by it taking someone off a bed and attacking, is where it all went wrong. If you can use tazer on stun you can certainly get on top of someone and subdue them while they are laying on a bed.
This comment was posted on December 17th, 2009 at 10:19 amFor all of you that say why so many shots, once it is justified to fire, one bullet or ten is of no matter and they come out fast. I would probably have emptied my clip as well.
CT Trooper, you are the blight of the police departments. If people like you were not in uniform most people wouldn’t hate cops. I bet you are the type that calls people not on the force civilians and views everyone as a potential perp. Guess what? YOU are a civilian just like me and while there is danger in your job, it is the us against them mentality that police like you have fostered to the point that your ordinary person is not all that far from the hate that you have, that makes your job as dangerous as it is. Since you hate your fellow citizens so much it seems to me that you should get job where you don’t deal with people, and not continue to hold one where you have the ability to make life or death calls at any given point in your job. For the other police that work around guys like CT Trooper, you should help to get these guys out of the force, as they are directly responsible for your average citizen’s fear and mistrust of you guys. We are SUPPOSED to be on the same side, not all citizens are perps, in fact it is quite a small percentage.
Way to go. They did just what they were trianed to do. Within 21 ft an edged weapon you shot to kill, end of story. Let all the scum bags out there know you threaten the police with DPF and you will DIE. I am so sick of hearing about all the cops getting shot, stabbed and hurt. -TY Coon may some dirty scum from the streets who is a mental case rob you at knife point and plunge the knife into your flesh and see how you like it, you dirty, unthankfull, disrespectfull, and completely stupid human. You disgrace all mankind by even opening your ignorant mouth on issues you have no idea or trianing on. Ty coon lets see you walk 1hr in a LE officers shoes….you would crap yourself and be in code black on the first call you go on… God Bless the cops who endlessly put their lives on the line for everybody everyday. And may those ungrateful ppl who have no training in LE keep thier mouths shut and go back to fliping burgers and selling dope (not commenting on this website)…….TO OHIO POLICE “A JOB VERY WELL DONE”…..never second guess when you reacted to your trianing and experience
This comment was posted on December 17th, 2009 at 10:27 amDaWaun get a real name, education, and job. Plus put an add in your local paper with your name, dob and address in it and tell your locals how you feel about police(and never call 911 again). Because I run into sex offenders, burglar’s, and thugs on parole for killing that understand this job better then you do. These thugs have more respect for LE then you do…and let them know how you feel and im sure they will come rob and beat u senseless cause you dont believe in calling the police. Oh wait you would be that guy on 911 screaming like a school girl begging for the police to come. And if you were so smart you wouldnt open your mouth on an issue you have no clue about. You just hate the police cause you are probable a registered sex offender or something and still hate police cause they caught you with that poor little girl….SHUT YOUR MOUTH…You are wasting oxygen. Ohio PD God Bless you and thank you for what you do and have done. You did the right thing. Dont worry 4 rounds can be fired in 1 sec. Im sure most would have done 9 in 2 sec. Sorry you have to go thru this crap by the small minority of ppl who dont believe in LE. Truly the majority back you and are praying for you. Its just the majority are tax payers and trust you so they dont have say useless disrespectfull stuff on here.
This comment was posted on December 17th, 2009 at 10:51 amGod Bless……one blue line
At one point I. Wanted to say ty con was just ignorant but he has obviously never delt with a mental pateint before or ever worked as an officer anywhere. I would love to help him with this…any officer that has worked an area or town kn ows what a frequent flyer is…most mental patients are frequent flyers and most officers in the department have delt with the subject on numerous occasions and we all know what they are capable of… mental patients are usually so out of control there is no stopping them… the officer completed her training to perfection…I don’t see anyone telling our soulders to give the iraqies warning shots!!
This comment was posted on December 17th, 2009 at 10:59 amThe nation is now a police state. Most of the populace worships police for some reason. When you allow one segment of society to have so much unbridled control over who lives and who dies, you end up with people who abuse said powers.
The old woman didn’t pose that much of a threat to necessitate shooting her, twice in the face no less.
People mistakenly believe that police have a “very dangerous job” when in fact, garbage collectors face more danger in their line of work than police. Don’t believe me? Look up a list of the most dangerous jobs.
This comment was posted on December 17th, 2009 at 10:59 am@Vic:
Being a cop is NOT one of the most dangerous jobs in the U.S. It’s not even in the top ten.
http://www.nowpublic.com/tech-biz/americas-deadliest-jobs-2009-top-10-list
This comment was posted on December 17th, 2009 at 11:04 amEveryone who disagrees with this outcome does not flip burgers and sell dope. Some of us have better jobs than you do. A police officer is a blue collar job, not very a prestigious accomplishment. Pro police, you should try leaving the computer alone and write some tickets.
This comment was posted on December 17th, 2009 at 11:07 amOfc’s Chandler & Kenney, I want to offer my strongest support to you both. This situation undoubly will get people emotional on both sides but as ofcs you already know we can’t let the opinion of others affect us or our actions. As a police ofc on patrol, I know how easily it could have been for me to be in your position and you in mine. May God continue to bless you & your families.
Only in America are we given the right to wish for mentally deranged soldier to die for shooting 43 soldiers on Ft.Hood one week, weep for 4 Washington Ofcs killed the next & then attack an Ofc for protecting her partner, the people in that facility & herself. This probably wouldn’t have even made local news in alot of other countries who understand how important it is to stand behind those who keep law and order, ALL THE TIME.
I am proud to stand behind you both & this badge WE wear. I would be proud to have either of you with me on the street, covering me!
Never lose focus on what’s improtant. Faith, Family, Country!
God Bless us all and this great land.
Now, I will proudly take my shift to protect those who agree or dissagree with these words.
This comment was posted on December 17th, 2009 at 11:16 amNever call the police for “help” if you value your life, liberty and happiness.
http://www.lewrockwell.com/blog/lewrw/archives/44934.html
Remember, when seconds count, the police are only minutes away!
This comment was posted on December 17th, 2009 at 11:27 amPro Fuzz, insane this morning or,every morning ? I have been in “trouble spots”, in two countries where the State Dept., warned against travel…BIG TIME !! I went to both spots numerous times and thoroughly enjoyed our accomplishments. In conflict, there are always “go-betweens”, a job I absolutely loved. I’ve had discussions with folks who HATE each other so completely ,it makes the HATE you and the other unionized government employees above, seem like a baby’s hate. To think that I went UNPREPARED, to defend myself and others is a vapid thought indeed. The common cops average day is no where near as dangerous to what ‘go betweens’ faced every single MINUTE , of every single DAY, in the countries involved ! And you can be sure, I never expected assistance from ANY law enforcement at ANYTIME. That, along with growing up on a farm in the country, NO ONE out there EVER expects the law to assist them FIRST !! It is ALWAYS THEM ( us ) , who protects themselves ( us ) FIRST !! A gun in hand is worth 200 sheriff’s , enroute ! So, you and Tired ought to wisen up as to what you think you do ,that is soooo prescious to citizens…really ISN’T ! Citizens protect themselves alot more than you government employees protect them…get off your high horse and get realistic for once in your wholly pathetic life. Cops in Little Detroit , are the worst and getting even more so …this ain’t Detroit, E. St. Louis, Vegas, or other cities who have 5 times the crime Toledo, has. LOOK OUT SEWING SCISSORS !! … BLAM BLAM…BLAM BLAM !!!
This comment was posted on December 17th, 2009 at 11:34 amJT507 SHE was a mentally ill patient in a care home not a knowing criminal on the street.It’s against state law to hurt dementia,senile,mentally ill patients in a carehome,or convalescent hospital.What you think because you are cops you are above the law? I can assure you if any caregiver had killed her while trying to take those scissors from her we would be toast!!!
This comment was posted on December 17th, 2009 at 11:50 amMatthew Kaney wrote that any police officer should just take the bullet, and my question would be: Then what?
I would expect the police to first protect themselfes. – Why? When the officer is dead or injured, who will be there to protect the innocent (me)?
Then I’d expect the police to protect the innocent. (They must be alive to do that)
And then they should protect the aggressors if possible.
Besides in a democracy all can use self defence to protect themselfes, but only the police have mandate to use force.
I was stopped once (mistaken identity), put on the ground and searched and taken to a cell where I had to wait for a full hour before they found out I was who I said I was.
I guess I could have yelled and screamed about their mistake, I guess I could have tried to sue them. But I think if I did I would have gotten hurt.
It was not a pleasent experience, but when they came and took me out, they said they were sorry, they gave me a cup of coffee, they explained to me how I could complaint, if I wanted to, and later I got a check of compensation for the hour and humiliation of being arrested in public. They even asked if they should take my jacket to the cleaners.
I know not all have been so “lucky” with the police, but a lot of times you yourself can make the situation worse or in my case easy.
This comment was posted on December 17th, 2009 at 12:09 pmHad I resisted arrest I would possible had brought charges upon myself and I would never get compensation without a lawsuit.
First of all, all of you cop apologists are quite tiresome. Most of you must be cops because of the poor English, bad grammar and spelling mistakes. That’s OK, we understand you weren’t hired for your brains. And, get off your high horse, being a cop doesn’t make the top ten list of most dangerous jobs.
Lots of trouble with this one. Sending two chicks to do a man’s job was mistake #1. This officer chick, Chandler, who shot the elderly woman was said to be trained in “crisis intervention”, does that mean she got more range time? She must have because clearly her “crisis intervention” training was lacking in the extreme.
A pair of scissors? Please, and some idiot up there can’t tell the difference between scissors and a knife? He must be a cop.
Of course, officer Chandler will be cleared of any wrong doing, as is the case when the police murder citizens. I hope she suffers terrible nightmares and nagging guilt for the rest of her miserable life. Maybe then she will end up on meds, living in a group home and another fine piece of swine will murder her.
This comment was posted on December 17th, 2009 at 12:21 pmWow there are some wack-jobs on this forum! All the folks that want warning shots and kung-fu disarming techniques have obviously never been in a deadly force situation. It happens fast and you don’t have time to have a debate on civil liberties. The officer was called there. She didn’t just go door to door looking for old ladies to taser.
All you morons know deep down that you would have done the same thing in that situation (if you could avoid crapping your pants). At least be honest with yourself and admit that you are envious of the police for doing a job you couldn’t begin to do.
This comment was posted on December 17th, 2009 at 12:21 pmHAHAHAHAHA Johnny Law, you made spill coffee all over my keyboard with that insane comment. Anybody that can fog a mirror can do your job; how hard is it to pull a trigger? How hard is it to blindly follow orders? How hard is it to sit in your squad eating donuts and slurping coffee? The various and sundry police departments across America look for low IQ goons as they know an intelligent person would never consider being a storm trooper. You are a useful idiot and you and your brothers and sisters in blue are becoming more irrelevant every passing day.
This comment was posted on December 17th, 2009 at 1:10 pm“When the officer is dead or injured, who will be there to protect the innocent (me)?” ~ Jens Welder
What are you helpless? Are you a paraplegic who has to eat out of a tube? If not, then YOU should protect YOURSELF first and foremost. If you think that the police have some type of obligation to protect you… you really don’t know the laws and why there are cops in the first place.
http://iarnuocon.newsvine.com/_news/2009/01/12/2303566-things-you-should-know-the-police-arent-obligated-to-protect-you
“All you morons know deep down that you would have done the same thing in that situation (if you could avoid crapping your pants). At least be honest with yourself and admit that you are envious of the police for doing a job you couldn’t begin to do.” ~ Johnny Law
I could do the jobs of three cops if I chose to do so. Fortunately, I have a brain and can make more money by NOT shooting crazy old harmless lady’s in the face multiple times.
“Of course, officer Chandler will be cleared of any wrong doing, as is the case when the police murder citizens.” ~ Bill
Surely, that will be the outcome of this murder. But look at what happens when a person shoots a cop who doesn’t knock or announce when raiding the wrong house…
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cory_Maye
Cory was protecting himself and his 18-month old daughter from what he thought were burglars. He hid in his room with his daughter on the floor until one of the “burglars” broke down his bedroom door. He shot in self-defense and killed an officer. He was later sentenced to death in Mississippi.
This is one of the WORST double standards in our society. Why do so many people blindly and openly worship police? It’s just inexplicable.
This comment was posted on December 17th, 2009 at 1:17 pmhahaha you people are funny
This comment was posted on December 17th, 2009 at 1:33 pmTo all who are calling a police officer who had to use deadly force a “murderer”…
I am a police officer. Every workday I say goodbye to my family and leave home knowing that I may not return as a result of the work I do. I put on my ballistic vest, gun, taser, baton, and badge and go out to do a job that you are not willing to do. I have never been put into the situation that these two officers have been put into. But every one of us who wear the badge could be but into that situation at any moment. We may have only seconds to deal with a confrontation that will be second guessed for years.
The bottom line is this, we are trained to respond to deadly force with deadly force. Scissors are a deadly weapon. To treat it any other way is foolish and dangerous for yourself and the public.
Please educate yourself. Maybe do some ride alongs with your local law enforcement agency instead of watching TV to get your knowledge about police work.
This comment was posted on December 17th, 2009 at 2:17 pmThere is no excuse to shoot an old lady, and if the officer had to make contact with ms hicks to taser her then im certain she could have disarmed the woman. Toledo Police are killers and Navarre will protect them, and as long as the police are being policed by themselves then there is no way to achieve justice. That being said justice is no longer blind, but able to see and re-interpret the laws she was set to enforce. No one on the street is safe from revisable law. Let it had been me that killed the old lady cause i was afraid of some scissors after the cops finished beating me then id be doing life. Cops are gangsters with ties to the Mayer, Governor, Congress, and the White house…we as citizens cannot win.
This comment was posted on December 17th, 2009 at 2:21 pmok. i am not a police officer but i do support them. everyone seems to think that all u have to do is look at someone, hold ur badge up and they will stop wat they r doing and say im sorry. it doesnt work like that. scissors are considered a deadly weapon. when this situation arises then the officers are taught to shoot at center mass. and last time i checkd my vital organs were right about there. when a subject does not cooperate with an officer then they have to escalate up the use of force scale. that means taser or hands on or baton or any other means of non lethal force. she used her taser. when that didnt work they suspect pulld out a deadly weapon. in this case scissors. the officer escalated to deadly force also. i completely agree with her actions. and to all the officers out there stay safe, make it home, finish ur shift. SEMPER FI
This comment was posted on December 17th, 2009 at 2:30 pmThe comments about the shots to the head are obviously made by none PO’s or persons who have never fired a gun. Did you read that the siccors were struck? She did not aim specifically for the head. PO’s usually shoot for the body where a hit is pretty much guaranteed, The rounds that followed were higher due to recoil and struck the head. PO’s do not fire warning shots. If they did,there is not guarantee that an innocent person in the next room, apartment, or nearby location does not get struck. This was a justified shooting. Many officers have been injured by older persons who they thought were weak.
This comment was posted on December 17th, 2009 at 2:41 pmJens Welder: I did NOT say that a cop should just sit there and take the bullet, not even close. I love how people determine which side someone is on, and then automatically attribute a bunch of ideas to them which they never stated.
I simply think cops should accept more risk than they do. If not, then I propose a lower salary. In particular, I think that applies to this particular case. You can’t play both sides, the safety on one and then using the job danger on the other to argue for higher salaries. Act like a hero, and you’ll be respected as one. Act like a tax feeder, and that’s how you’ll be perceived. Act as unprofessional and angry as some of the officers are, and you become scary and not someone I want to see in this job.
This comment was posted on December 17th, 2009 at 3:03 pmtalk is cheap. yall cop haters aint got da balls to bak up all ur S#^T talk.
This comment was posted on December 17th, 2009 at 3:07 pm“go out to do a job that you are not willing to do.” ~ joelv
Yes, I would do the not-so-dangerous job of shooting mentally ill old women in the face multiple times if I had to. Fortunately, I have found gainful employment that does not require me to needlessly extinguish innocent lives.
Again, police and their blind supporters continually try to make it seem like being a cop is a “dangerous job” and that we should worship the cops for “protecting us” and doing so in such a “dangerous work environment”. However, the fact is that police have NO OBLIGATION TO PROTECT CITIZENS and that being a cop is NOT EVEN ON THE TOP TEN LIST OF MOST DANGEROUS JOBS. In fact, the garbage collector you probably saw this morning has a more dangerous job than a cop.
Cop worship is a giant barrier to true justice, they seem to think that they are above the law. Without justice, there can be no peace. Maybe injustice will one day make being a cop actually a top ten dangerous job because of citizen backlash, but until then please stop lying to yourself and others that police work is “super dangerous”.
This comment was posted on December 17th, 2009 at 3:29 pmJosh, the cop wanna be. He readily accepts the murder of a elderly woman by another woman wearing a badge. We call that boot-licking Josh, the blind acceptance of a horror committed against another human being because the perpetrator was wearing a clown costume and a tin star. Nice.
This comment was posted on December 17th, 2009 at 3:58 pmI don’t care where the bullets landed – face, chest, legs… or how many bullets get fired… shoot until the person stops moving. The facility called the police because the woman posed a threat to herself and other residents and staff. The police had no choice but to deal with this lady. They couldn’t just “back out of the room” when she got up with a pair of scissors in her hands. I am not second-guessing the officer, but I am really surprised she got close enough to taze her on contact. If the taser malfunctioned, I understand moving up to deadly force. I would never have suggested that the officer get up close to her and do a contact taze.
I also don’t agree that an officer is supposed to “give his (or her) life” for others. They risk their lives, yes, but losing their lives is not part of the agreement they make when they become police officers. Police officers have to be unwilling to lose their lives so that they are available to continue to “risk” their lives to protect us.
I also don’t care how old the person is… with a weapon in hand, they can kill you. If this woman wasn’t a threat, the facility wouldn’t have called the police in the first place. They thought she was a threat and it turns out they were absolutely correct.
And anyone who thinks police should “shoot to injure” versus “shoot to kill” isn’t living in the real world. If an officer needs to use their gun, that means deadly force is necessary and justified. I wouldn’t want to start tying their hands and dictating what circustances are “shoot to injure” versus “shoot to kill” scenarios. They have a hard enough job.
Law enforcement has paid a heavy price this year. I, for one, am glad the police officers came out on top on this one.
This comment was posted on December 17th, 2009 at 4:03 pmTo Paul (everyone else to)
I am in wildlife and environmental law enforcement. Just to dispel a common myth, you cant just “tranquelize” someone. The drugs delievered intramuscular still take about 20 minutes to react. What you see on TV is far from the truth.
I aggree it was a likely a justified shooting, you meet the potential for grievious bodily harm with potentially lethal force. As far as the number of rounds fires a few things come to mind.
In Canada law enforcment is trained to always deliver two rounds to the center mass of a threat. Then if the threat does not subside right away you shoot for the head (note that a head shot does not always result in impairment to the threat). But at the end of the day none of us were there and in the officers shoes, so who are we to judge.
This comment was posted on December 17th, 2009 at 4:03 pmI pity and can only pray for the ignorant democrats that think this was murder. With a little luck, someone will threaten them with heir lives and they will then know murder.
This comment was posted on December 17th, 2009 at 4:07 pmRWM, you, sir have not a clue do you? I neither ignorant nor a democrat. I have had my life threatened more than once and I was able to get out of it by defending myself. In not one of those personal assaults did I have to injure or kill anyone. On top of that, I’m not even a parasitic tax feeding cop.
And to PRO Chandler, I WILL absolutely judge every single time I read one of these horror stories. When my hard earned dollars (earned in a private business actually creating something of value) are stolen from me and paid to people who are ostensibly supposed to protect me, I have every right to judge. Also, please stop this incessant whining about what a tough job they have or how dangerous it is. It is NOT dangerous and if it is too difficult for you, then find another profession, preferably one that doesn’t require feeding off of us productive members of society.
This comment was posted on December 17th, 2009 at 4:34 pmJoel, isn’t your job description an oxymoron?
This comment was posted on December 17th, 2009 at 4:40 pmBill, you sir have obviously never been REALLY threatened and in fear of your life. It must be a nice feeling to JUDGE from an slanted article through the media. I personally go with facts, try it you might find out there is more to the world than being wrapped up in yourself.
This comment was posted on December 17th, 2009 at 5:46 pmNewsflash, Bill… we are ALL taxpaying citizens and work hard for the money we make… even the police. You can judge all you want, but it’s simply your OPINION, and one I don’t happen to agree with, and one the LAW doesn’t support either. The officer will undoubtedly be cleared of any wrongdoing because of the simple FACT that she didn’t do anything wrong. If you don’t like the fact that police SHOOT TO KILL that’s TOO BAD for you and for anyone else who poses a threat to any officer or a member of the public. This was a deadly force situation and the officer made a good call. You can disagree all you want, but the LAW is on her side.
The job of police officers IS tough and it IS dangerous. Still, there are men and women who are out there 24 hours a day doing it. As for me, I salute them. Good job, Officer Chandler.
This comment was posted on December 17th, 2009 at 5:53 pmHAHAHAHA RWM, you are a laughingstock!!! YOU made the blanket statement that everyone who disagrees with you is an ignorant democrat. You presented NO facts, you made NO coherent argument, you simply made a blanket statement based on your own emotions and feelings. And you have the NERVE to claim you go with just the facts? HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
And what do you know, exactly, about what I have experienced? Absolutely nothing. By your posts, you have proved beyond all doubt that you are just another feral mouth breather and mostly likely, one who depends on theft from the productive to exist.
Why don’t you pin your tin star on and wrap yourself in blue and contemplate the larger world around you and the smarter people you owe your life to.
This comment was posted on December 17th, 2009 at 6:08 pmA couple of points there Pro, first of all, taking a pay check that is made good by armed robbery of the citizenry is NOT earning a living or working hard.
Secondly, the law is NOT on her side, but the department investigating her is. If I had done the exact same thing as this Chandler woman, I would be in jail right now, don’t even try to deny that.
Thirdly, the job of a police officer is neither dangerous or tough. Did you not follow the links to the most dangerous jobs lists? I would have to say it has got to be mind numbingly boring, or else departments wouldn’t reject applicants with IQs above 100.
This comment was posted on December 17th, 2009 at 6:56 pmCT Trooper needs a new job?
HA HA subdue her with a drive stun he says. Well a drive stun may have done the job, but probably not. You can fight through a drive stun. You’re right I am a civilian, not like when I was in the Marine Corps. The comments of hatred are not to the general public. I like most people and think that generally most people mean well. However I hate idiots like you who think they can talk like authorities about what cops go through. You people no nothing about police work. I don’t tell you how to shuffle paper work across a desk. Further more, why should that cop get stabbed or cut for some physco? She did what she had to and I am sure she would do it again. You’re opinion means nothing, you my friend are a sheep.
This comment was posted on December 17th, 2009 at 8:40 pmWhy doesn’t anyone want to address the fact that this was not a criminal situation.This was a patient care situation.This is not about hating cops.This is about protecting patients from all harm.I seem to be the only one adressing the real truth.She should have been given a tranquilizer shot or pill.She should have been left alone in time out.The cops should never have been called.This was not a criminal case.
This comment was posted on December 17th, 2009 at 9:59 pmI don’t care where the bullets landed – face, chest, legs… or how many bullets get fired… shoot until the person stops moving. This motto has never changed and probably never will. This article failed to mention that the officers that showed up on the scene wasn’t the ones who got the call to respond, they were just bored. Also to top that by witness testimony the ms hicks was calm and laying in bed with the weapon hidden and the fact that they agitated her makes them at fault. To conclude i repeat if she was close enough to taser her then she was close enough to disarm her. Gotta Love the cops motto “just kill them it’s not like they can testify”
This comment was posted on December 17th, 2009 at 10:29 pm“The job of police officers IS tough and it IS dangerous.” ~ PRO OFC CHANDLER
Yes, the job is dangerous, about as dangerous as a job in a bakery. Even garbage-men have a more dangerous job! I don’t see many garbage men complaining that the public doesn’t understand how dangerous their job is.
“With a little luck, someone will threaten them with heir lives and they will then know murder.” ~ R.W.M.
The mentality of most of the employees of our militarized law enforcement agencies is clear from this quote. If you don’t worship, fear or otherwise suck up to the police, they would rather SEE YOU (any non-police citizen) DEAD.
My life has been threatened numerous times. I’ve NEVER called the police because they couldn’t get there in time anyways and usually they just make the problem worse.
Police are more dangerous than most criminals out there. One thing I know for sure is that if at any time, cop or no cop, I feel that my life is actually threatened (i.e. – not just a demented old lady with scissors) I WILL USE FORCE AS NECESSARY.
This comment was posted on December 17th, 2009 at 10:29 pm“Guess what…We hate you too! Have a nice day sir or mam.”
Yeah , cttroop, we get that. Thanks for making the point so bluntly, 436.
This comment was posted on December 18th, 2009 at 3:34 amWow, there is a lot a ignorance out there! Any of you cop haters have any actual experience with psych patients? I have seen elderly pt.s that hardly weighed 100 lbs lift grown men off of their feet. These pt.s were lying in bed at the time. and I literally being lifted off of my feet as I was trying to hold them down and keep them from pulling out IV’s etc… To all of you educated people out there. Do me a favor and do some research on the mortality and morbidity of stab wounds. It is way higher than you think!
This comment was posted on December 18th, 2009 at 4:46 amLet me get this?A 62 year old Prone woman in a bed with Sewing scissors (Average over all length 2.5 inches) in a Care Facility?1.Why was this a problem that they needed police for?Arn’t they equiped with Psychology?Secondly if you had tazed me for being old and having scissors I’d be Irate too.Dementia or not.You guys take on Protestors without using guns and they are young healthy often male groups.But you break out the weapons for Grandma?Call it whatever POLITICAL SPIN PHRASE of the day you want.It’s Murder.Protection like that is why I own a gun myself and don’t worry about calling YOU for help.Marlin Perkins was an Old man who apparently had more gutts than cops like this.He went after everything from Elephants to Rhinos without Gunning them down.He used a TRANQ.!S.O.P. for dealing with PATIENTS like this woman.Some advice from a Farm Boy who has extensive experience with the usage of such Electrical devices.More often than not the one on the recieving end of that Jolt gets AMPED up and is more likely to KILL YOU.62 years old and they Juiced her with 50 Kilovolts?I deal with alot more dangerous things than you daily and Guess how often I’ve had to shoot one of them?If you ever did this …..?Let me put it this way.If that Officer vanished tomorrow I’d not give a damn.That’s somebody’s family….By the way Toledo is also where they cut down the Force and where 2 walking mountains with leggs in Uniform beat some 14 year old kid Bloody then proceeded to choke him out.You ever take on any REAL threats?
This comment was posted on December 18th, 2009 at 6:05 amMaybe everyone needs to put the responsibilty and blame where it belongs which is the Lucas County Mental Health System for its inadequate treatment & care for Lucas County Mental Health
This comment was posted on December 18th, 2009 at 7:54 amConsumers!!
Bill FYI
Oxymoron:
n., pl., -mo·ra (-môr’?, -m?r’?), or -rons.
A rhetorical figure in which incongruous or contradictory terms are combined, as in a deafening silence and a mournful optimist.
Remeber,
If police and law enforecment in general were told they were no longer allowed to defend them selves to the degree which they are to day, there wouldnt be many people out there patrolling your streets.
This comment was posted on December 18th, 2009 at 9:36 am“If an officer needs to use their gun, that means deadly force is necessary and justified.”
This comment was made by one of our finest. This is true as well. Police are never found to be at fault despite the evidence. We need to stop letting the police police themselves, or things will never change. I am fed up.
This comment was posted on December 18th, 2009 at 11:25 amA tragic situation. For those of you who have lived in your secluded world forever let me tell you; a pair of scissors can kill. The officer was in danger and did what she had to do to survive. Anybody who says they would fight someone with a knife bare handed woould probably bring a knife to a gunfight.
This comment was posted on December 18th, 2009 at 11:26 amTy Coon, shut up and go back to playing video games. that is probably all the martial arts you know.
Officer’s Chandler and Kenny, you survived the physical part of the confrontation, now stay strong and survive the mental part. It is horrible that you were forced to take the action you did. But never ever second guess yourself. Stay strong, stay safe and keep up the good work.
For those who say that the job is not dangerous.
http://www.odmp.org/year.php
The families of these brave men and women will have to spend the holiday season without their fathers, mothers, husbands, and wives.
This comment was posted on December 18th, 2009 at 12:25 pmDear John the pepe, Yes, the policeperson, could have been killed by the 2.5 inch sewing scissors…only if Chandler, laid out , didn’t resist, showed the carotid artery ,placed an X there, and told the 62 year old lady to stab her there repeatedly, all the while her partner cheered her on. And, you expect ANYONE on the Planet to actually buy into that load of SKAT !!?? Here’s a penny Pe Pe, go buy something worth alot more than your wholly pathetic excuse. Now, post to someone who believes in the tooth fairy !! P.S. my greatest proficiency is in KNIVES and removing them from those who have them…that’s why I have to belly laugh every time you vomit eaters bring up edged blades and how lethal sewing scissors are…still laughing !! Oh, I also pound ten penny nails into maple with my stone hard fist…
This comment was posted on December 18th, 2009 at 12:25 pmThe police keep watering down what justifies using deadly force. If a 62-year-old woman brandishing a pair of scissors is a life and death scenario, what isn’t a death threat to police. I do think the officers got scared and pulled the trigger prematurely. Now a 62-year-old woman with no criminal background is dead. Was her judgment at the last minute wrong? She should second-guess her decision to kill that lady.
Is the world a better place because they killed the most dangerous 62-year-old mentally ill elderly lady in the country? Who is next? When will officers pay for their poor decisions, especially when innocent lives are lost due to their actions?
This comment was posted on December 18th, 2009 at 1:26 pmPosting that link to ODMP does not prove anything. People die every day. The facts are that POLICE WORK IS NOT THAT DANGEROUS.
Police are the largest, most powerful street gang in America…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8EoqjzaasRI
This comment was posted on December 18th, 2009 at 1:33 pmAs per “The Blade”, a Toledo based newspaper “62-year-old woman armed with a 10-inch scissors”
I’m not an edged weapon expert by any means, but a 10 inch. edged weapon sounds like a pretty substantial threat to me.
http://toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20091218/NEWS02/912180316
This comment was posted on December 18th, 2009 at 2:11 pmIt was reported that the special training in Crisis Intervention that Navarre referred to is only a volunary 40 hour training given by who else, the
Lucas County Mental Health & Recovery Board.
THAT IS AS YOU MIGHT AS WELL STATING NO CRISIS INTERVENTION AT ALL!!
The Lucas County Mental Health Board is incapable of traing their own Mental Health so-called Professionals and workers!
Go after the Lucas County Mental Health System
This comment was posted on December 18th, 2009 at 3:33 pmfor inadequate training!!
We are trained to shoot at center mass. If someone is actively attacking you that center mass of mass will change several times.
This comment was posted on December 18th, 2009 at 6:29 pmThis is absurd! Some people think officers are magical! This post is from an officer of 16 years of experience, a certified PPCT Defensive Tactics Instructor in weapons retention/disarming, pressure point control, ground defense, expandable baton, spontaneous knife defense, a hand-to-hand combat instructor, and 22 years of aikido and jujitsu training. Now, 8 and 88 are the youngest and oldest ages of people in the world known to have taken the life of a police officer–age isn’t a factor. Less than 1/2 inch is the depth of penetration needed to reach the jugular vein and carotid artery in the human neck–blade size isn’t a factor. Standard police training dictates the appropriate response for attack from edged weapons at less than 36 feet is that it should be countered by deadly force. She responded as she should have and the only error is that she should only use the taser first if she was being covered by another officer who was displaying deadly force. As for the number of shots and there placement–keep in mind this is a dynamic situation. Shoot until the threat is stopped. I guarantee those four shots occurred in one and a half seconds or less in a point-shoot situation. The officer was experiencing an adrenaline dump that resulted in highly increased heart-rate, loss of fine motor skills, trembling, partial visual and auditory exclusion, and complete tunnel vision. She’s lucky she hit the MOVING target at all, much less head shots. She also probably thought the only fired once or twice (that’s very common). The head wasn’t intented, center mass was. Last point, no you don’t try to disarm her. Even if you’re great, one mistake and a blade can punch straight through a vest, cut the jugular, take an eye, disable the flexor tendons in your hand resulting in a loss of the function of your hand–now you’re one-handed against an armed subject. After that, you’re dead. She did what she was supposed to. The number of times she will second-guess herself despite having done the right thing–1,000,000 times. Those who wants to Monday morning quarterback should go out and put on a uniform, then we’ll verbally rip YOU apart.
This comment was posted on December 18th, 2009 at 9:49 pmThis is more addressed to many of the posters here, because everyone’s background and personal views seem to be such an issue–I am neither a republican nor a democrat, but an independant. I don’t like Obama, but I didn’t like McCain either (I wanted Fred Thompson). I served 10 years in the army in addition to my 16 years of law enforcement experience. Some of our brothers in law enforcement here have made a few misstatements, like “shoot until they stop moving.” That is actually, “shoot until the threat is stopped.” No, we are not specifically trained in psychology. No, we are not all trained in martial arts. Although the job can be mundane, boring, and repetitive for long periods of time–when it gets dangerous, it gets VERY dangerous and with no notice. Therefore, you must be ready at all times. Yes, I hate the way that some of the non-law enforcement are bashing police, but I even more hate the way that a few of the law enforcement professionals are responding back so unprofessionally. Remember, I may fight to the death against what you say, but I’ll fight just as hard for your right to say it. Next, why didn’t the nurse give her a pill or a shot? Would you get in cutting range of that lady and give her ANYTHING? More power to ya’. Yes, some officers are bad apples. I don’t live in fantasy land, and if I had a genie, I’d wish all bad ones would become inmates but I can’t. They are the one percent, not the ninety-nine. Also, if she was laying calmly with the knife hidden that indicates that she intends an ambush once a target is in range. All the more reason to use EMD’s (electro-muscular disruptors). With a longer range (unfortunately the probes malfunctioned). Also, just because YOU may be an expert in knife defense, doesn’t means all police are. No, the world is NOT a better place because she is dead. Yes, the officer certainly wishes she wasn’t dead. The only person however, that could’ve chosen a course of action that would’ve ended with the woman not being shot is the woman. It isn’t that she was evil– she was just mentally unhinged. I wish all the best and the most peace achievable for both the officers and their families, as well as the family of the patient.
This comment was posted on December 18th, 2009 at 10:28 pmI respect Jeremy’s comments. I still think that it was unjust, but I respect you and your argument.
This comment was posted on December 19th, 2009 at 10:47 amWell said, Jeremy.
As a police officer and firearms instructor I can say with some authority that police usually aim for center mass to stop the threat. In several training exercises, I have witnessed that the officer’s focus is usually on the actual threat (gun, knife, scissors) and that is where the rounds strike. If the scissors were being held in front of the persons face/head, then it is not surprising that is where the rounds would hit.
As far as policing not being a dangerous job, you are delusional at best. In no other job (except maybe corrections) are you more prone to being assaulted or feloniously assaulted while at work or because of what you do. 60,000 officers assaulted last year and 15,000 with injuries. Yes, officers are not dying as much because of better training and tactics and because of modern medical care. I am sure some of you are probably disappointed by this.
I learned long ago not to argue with drunks or crazy people, so I will not try to persuade Ty Coon, DaWuan, and others of their ilk.
Stay safe brothers and sisters.
This comment was posted on December 19th, 2009 at 12:50 pmFirst Point: Sewing scissors can have blades a foot long or more. My wife has a pair–and they come to a sharp point at the end. Such an item will puncture an officer’s protective vest. We had an officer seriously injured by a man who stabbed him multiple times with a screwdriver a few years ago. Many common items can be used as weapons.
Second point: Police Officers are not paid to “run away” or ignore a situation. The public expects us to deal with it. Walking away from the woman with a lethal weapon would place everyone else in that halfway house in immediate danger.
Third Point: No officer worthy of the name wants to shoot somebody. We are out to save and protect lives, not take them. The aftermath of a lethal incident is pure hell, even if the shooting was justified. The officer will have to live with this the rest of her life.
Last point: Anybody who tries to say an officer’s job is not dangerous is just wrong. If you want to question that, just get on the Web & bring up pictures of the THOUSANDS of names on the National Law Officer’s Memorial in Washington D.C. These officers all DIED IN THE LINE OF DUTY!! Thousands more are injured annually in car crashes, assaults, investigations, public assists, and under other circumstances.
And to DaWuan: Your “prestige” and “education” mean nothing without practical experience. I have a Bachelor’s Degree and a lot of additional schools and training, but they are good for nothing without the ability to apply it in the real world–of which you display total ignorance. My most important education and knowledge comes from the daily experiences of myself and other officers.
The blue collar workers are what built and sustain this country. One would think that, with your “education,” you would know that. Your education has some serious deficiencies. Get off your pedestal long enough to learn about reality.
This comment was posted on December 20th, 2009 at 9:20 amWinger,
I do not respect you or your argument. That goes for anyone who thinks, acts, or even looks like you.
This comment was posted on December 20th, 2009 at 6:40 pmWhen the posters here are before St. Peter, at the Golden Gates. And if the topic arises on why we defended the death of “the mentally challenged Elderly Lady”,”, in order to pass into Heaven. DuWuan, Jennifer, I, and others will state, this wasn’t a criminal case , it was a mental health crisis event , the lady didn’t deserve to have her life snuffed out for a “threat” that no where near matched the deadly response , patience, and other non lethal options were as obvious as the Sun rising in the East. Plus, the blatant ‘ double standard ‘, of how police can kill a mental case and walk! Where if the ” public” , even slapped a mental case, that citizen, would be charged with a felony ! Then, when the ” Pro 2 In the Face and 2 in the gut”, crowd is asked by St. Peter,” Why did you defend a policeperson , who shot an elderly, mentally challenged lady FOUR TIMES “?! They can call St. Peter, an ” idiot”, that bullets do not travel in MPH ,they travel in FPS, that “they wanted to go home that night”, that St.Peter, should walk in their shoes, that St. Peter, ought to have a mental case rip his flesh open with sewing scissors, that St. Peter, is ” drunk or crazy”, that we ” hate you too”, and every excuse vomitted up imaginable by police posters who are without a doubt, on the take, drunk, doped up, sexually perverted , and EXACTLY …the same sort of folks who fake evidence and have a second gun on them as a plant on their next unfortunate vitim ! And as St. Peter, sends them back to perdition to await Hell, the Fuzz , will have ample time to consider that their woefully pathetic excuses don’t add up to a spit in the Deep Blue Sea !!
This comment was posted on December 21st, 2009 at 11:27 amI realize that everyday items can potentially be a lethal weapon, but that does not mean you shoot everyone who possesses a pair of scissors.
I realize that blue collar jobs built this country and the middle class, but that doesn’t make it prestigious.
When I speak of education, I am talking about one of the most difficult degrees you can earn. Most Americans don’t have the courage, dedication, or ability to graduate with my degree. We need more Americans in STEMM fields (science, technology, engineering, mathematics, and medicine). These are some of the greatest minds who help build the world. By the way, I am an engineer.
I do believe there is a special place in hell for people who kill innocent people and hide behind a badge to justify their actions. I think the police need to be investigated by an outside agency to keep them honest and the public safe.
This comment was posted on December 22nd, 2009 at 11:37 amThere are several points I have to make and I know some (or possibly all) have been stated in the comments. (didn’t read all of them)
I would wager that 99.9999% of the police departments out there have policies expressly FORBIDDING warning shots. There is a lawyer attached to every bullet that comes out of an officer’s gun.
Ofc. Chandler and Ofc. Kenney engaged a potentially dangerous subject with a response to overcome the initial threat. She had a subject who refused to remove her hands from beneath a pillow that concealed the unknown at the time. After a taser cartridge malfunction and a drive stun that failed to control the subject, the situation escalated to a lethal force situation. Police officers are trained to meet resistance with a higher response than the one being presented. In this case the highest response is the most effective in stopping the incident.
To the person who said “There is absolutely no reason for any officer anywhere to shot a 62-year-old woman in the head twice”. Just because a person is “shot in the head” doesn’t mean its a disabling shot. There are many cases of someone shot in the head who stays in the fight. If the shot(s) to center mass does not stop the threat you have 2 options….keeps putting holes in center mass or shoot them in the head. If the first head shot doesn’t stop the threat, shoot again. Why was Hicks shot four times? Because three shots were not enough to eliminate the threat!
My heart aches for the pain these officers will feel over what looks to me as a justified response to resistance.
To the brave heroes of this sad event, be strong and know you had just cause in the response you were forced to administer. Lean on your fellow brothers and sisters of LE. You did the right thing and was able to go home at the end of your shift.
This comment was posted on December 22nd, 2009 at 3:26 pmThat officer had to make the decision in split second timing,yes it is sad that she had to take a life and I feel it is affecting her as we speak., and she is going to have to live with her decision.Who would rather that the officer second guest her training. How many of those yahoos out there ever been in a life and death situation and live tho tell about… We a person persent a weapon to a law enforcement officer and tell them that they are going to do them bodily harm and or say I will kill you, that officer must decide whether to fight or flight, live or die. No officer is train to shoot in the leg to stop a threat, you shoot center mass,thats your training. And if she had shot in the air or up in the ceiling and hit some other tenant then there would be a law suit on that… The liability in doing something like is really bad… she did what she had to do to stop the threat… its sad that the person was not own their medication…
This comment was posted on December 23rd, 2009 at 1:00 amTy Coon – “When the posters here are before St. Peter, at the Golden Gates… (blah, blah, blah)” I’m quite confident that St. Peter will have better things to discuss with me. I also think YOU will have a real eye opener on that Day of Judgment. Hope to see you there.
DaWaun – “When I speak of education, I am talking about one of the most difficult degrees you can earn. Most Americans don’t have the courage, dedication, or ability to graduate with my degree.” Most intelligent people don’t have to flaunt their credentials. It speaks volumes that you feel you must.
Bill – I don’t know of any police department in this nation that rejects applicants because their IQ is 100 or above. Sounds like you were rejected at some point, which actually explains a lot. And your comment “Secondly, the law is NOT on her side, but the department investigating her is. If I had done the exact same thing as this Chandler woman, I would be in jail right now, don’t even try to deny that.” I EMPHATICALLY deny that… every citizen is allowed to defend him/herself. There is such a concept as “Justifiable Homicide” and it happens more often than you think. It is difficult for the average citizen to take another human being’s life also, even when it’s justified. I have seen it. The law would be on YOUR side in this situation, the same as it will be on Officer Chandler’s side.
I can’t imagine that any of you truly believe that police officers don’t have dangerous jobs. I also can’t imagine that any of you truly believe that scissors are not deadly weapons. If you really believe such things, I’d like to have a vacation in your fantasy world. It must be very relaxing there… all balloons and butterflies.
At the end of the day, the fact is this: Those of you who are so certain that you would NEVER use deadly force in a situation like this really have no practical knowledge of what you would do if faced with the situation in real life. It’s easy to sit back in your recliner and judge someone else. It isn’t as easy when you are the person actually faced with the situation. And, I promise you, it is never easy taking another person’s life… even when the circumstances present no other alternative.
I am not angry about anyone’s opinion. It is a little disheartening to hear the absolute negative comments made about this officer, in particular, and about police officers in general. That’s sad to me, but I don’t live in a fantasy world and I know those opinions are out there in abundance. The negative comments will not alter the job performance of police officers all across America who have taken an oath and dedicated their lives to serving and protecting their communities. It would not make me think twice about risking my life to protect even YOU. I know the same is true of every police officer in America. Police work is a thankless job. I measure my work not by public opinion, but by whether or not I can look myself in the mirror every night, and by whether or not I can make my wife and children proud, and by whether or not I am serving my department and the law enforcement profession in an honorable manner. On those counts, I am a success.
I wish I could help some of you understand, and maybe I could if you were willing to have an honest discussion and weren’t looking just to “state your case.” You also might be able to help me understand things from your perspective. I have found in life that we are all not that different from one another. Instead of the negative bantering, it would be nice to have this move to a more constructive conversation. If any of you are interested in that, I can’t invite you to the White House for a beer, but I’d be willing to have a one-on-one dialog with any of you. (We can exchange emails.) Maybe you’d find the same thing – that we aren’t world’s apart and that we want the same things… justice… peace… a safe community. We are all human beings. How can we be so different? There are reasons… it’s called life experience. Let’s discuss those differences and try to find common ground and reach an understanding. After all, I may be the one showing up at your home when you dial 911. And I do want to provide the best possible service to you, whether you belive that or not.
Take care, all of you, and have a safe and blessed holiday season. If anyone wants to take me up on my offer, let me know.
This comment was posted on December 23rd, 2009 at 2:03 pmDear Pro 2 in the Face & 2 in the Gut, Another load of fertilizer from a unionized government loafer! Who without a doubt, is a felon yet to get caught planting evidence, falsifying records, and strong arming / shaking down prostitutes, drug dealers, and everyone you come across. St. Peter, will gladly welcome me into Heaven, that is a surety ! Still, one of your own MURDERS an elderly lady and you vomit eaters just don’t get it do you ?! It is no wonder that police have the nickname of PIGS…it is well deserved from every killer in waiting who posted here. Good luck in perdition you vile, miserable, zero. At this point, your pathetic screaming is reminiscent of children …cry some more…and some more…
This comment was posted on December 23rd, 2009 at 4:27 pmI respect PRO OFC CHANDLER. I think that we all could learn something from talking in a more constructive manner.
This comment was posted on December 23rd, 2009 at 6:44 pmTy Coon… How unfortunate that even peaceful words garner such anger and hatred from you. You judge me and lump me into one category, yet you know nothing about me except that you and I differ on this particular shooting. I will be the first to admit there are corrupt police officers. Police officers are human beings, after all. I’d venture to say that I have met and personally know many more police officers than you do as a result of my 20+ years in the law enforcement profession. Despite the lengthy screening process, bad apples still make their way into this profession, and that is unfortunate for all of us. Whatever contempt you feel toward a bad officer, I guarantee that mine is doubled. Yet, there are many more good officers than bad. No, the media doesn’t report the positive stories – those things aren’t newsworthy and would never result in a debate like this. I see fine police officers every day.
This 62 year old lady wasn’t murdered. There are many, many mentally ill people who never put themselves in the situation that this lady put herself in. Whether it’s because she was off her meds or some other reason, I can’t say. It’s unfortunate all the way around. But I stand by this officer.
DaWuan… thank you.
This comment was posted on December 24th, 2009 at 12:04 pmDear Pro 2 in the face & 2 in the gut, it is an absolute certainty that you haven’t changed a single “Pro Elderly Ladies”,posters minds. In fact, you miserable excuses for humanity have HARDENED mine into STEEL ! The myriad of delusional moanings by you reprobates prooves every single posters point about worthless, deadly cops ! You unionized loafers are overpaid, overweight, and over react to simple threats BIG TIME !GOD, help us all if you dissolute felons ever come across one of us Pro Elderly Lady, posters…our lives would be in GRAVE HARM…BIG TIME !!
This comment was posted on December 28th, 2009 at 11:59 amTy Coon… take off your blinders and open your eyes. Stop painting every law enforcement officer with the same brush. Police officers, generally speaking, are not “miserable excuses for humanity” nor are we “loafers, overpaid, overweight, over-reactors, or FELONS”… If your humanity is made up of steel, as you say, then you can no longer be objective and are guilty of the very thing you accuse law enforcement of being. We all need to work together to make the world a better and safer place. You are unwilling to do that. Since that is the case – since all you want to do is complain and not look for any solutions – take yourself out of the mix here and stew in your own hate-filled world. I know misery loves company but stop trying to bring others down to your level. It’s counter-productive to what we should all be trying to accomplish here.
Things happen for a reason. I see things from a law enforcement perspective, certainly. I know what the job entails. I know what it’s like to be the person in that position who has to make a split-second decision about whether or not to use deadly force. You don’t. You know what it’s like to read a news story and have all the information at hand in black and white and be able to second guess an officer’s decision from the leisure of your home, far away from any harm. I am willing to hear you and your concerns but you aren’t willing to share any of your concerns in a positive or constructive manner. You only want to complain and judge and call names. For what purpose? What do you gain by doing that? Do you think it changes anything? Do you even want change, or do you just want to continue to foam at the mouth?
This comment was posted on December 30th, 2009 at 2:33 pmDear Pro 2 in the FACE & 2 in the GUT, With cold-blood in your veins and clabber for brains, the discussion is about unionized government employee posters HERE !! Ty Coon-is approached by a mental case with sewing scissors. He takes her by the wrist, snapping it, brings her down ,in an arm-bar to the ground where she hits her head and dies. Coon-faces 3 felonies, including manslaughter !! Enters prison for 3to 12 years !!! Police – same situation – TWO IN THE FACE and TWO IN THE GUT ! Aftermath: Accomodations, cop of the year award, other fuzz scream and moan that the shooting was RIGHTEOUS !!Toledo Justice: Demonrat-unionized cop,Toledo-Demonrat D.A.’s, Toledo-Demonrat Judge, Toledo Demonrat-grand jury…lets the cop off with the same reasons puked up by you and other felons in waiting ! I know, that you PRO 2 in the FACE & PRO-TWO IN THE GUT CROWD, will NEVER get the double standard however, so many others do that it makes you and your fellow government employees look like the cold blooded felons in waiting you truly are. Plus, you miserable jokes of humanity are STILL, PROTESTING WAY TOO BLOODY MUCH !! A great indicator of GUILT !!! Cry me another river you whiny, moaning, menstrual reprobates.And then RETIRE, saving other citizens THEIR LIVES !!!!
This comment was posted on December 31st, 2009 at 11:14 amDear , Pro 2in the FACE & two in the GUT, You doth protest WAAAAAAAY toooooo much, AGAIN !!! …a great indicator of absolute GUILT ! Now, go crybaby to a fellow government unionized employee felon in waiting…your posts are repetitious, tiring, and as nonsensical as that from an obese, overpaid, underworked , doper/ drunkard , sexual deviant, evidence planting, second gun carrying, dissolute cop !!!
This comment was posted on December 31st, 2009 at 12:23 pmTy Coon… I get it now. You’re one of the mental patients where this lady lived…
This comment was posted on January 4th, 2010 at 12:38 pmIt is too bad this lady is dead. Certified ‘Crisis Intervention Training’ is mentioned. Wonder what had been done prior to the TASER application? As I read it the officer who TASED the lady is also the one who shot her. Let’s see, TASER failure (improper aim?) and then a drive stun – if only one probe hit the lady, the drive stun should lock her up (IF the officer knew what they were doing). Usually in a case like this if the officers were following contact/cover roles more than a kneejerk reaction, certainlyyou would expect the other (cover) officer to be the one engaging with lethal force. The news story doesn’t say anything about what the back up officer was doing throughout this episode. Nor does the news story give a time line between the initial arrival, the TASE, and the shooting. Nor does the story say anything about the distance traversed by suspect or officers.
A lady is dead, two officers’ lives are in shambles and we really don’t know enough to make an informed decision, only a knee jerk reaction.
This comment was posted on January 4th, 2010 at 6:36 pmIt is too bad this lady is dead. Certified ‘Crisis Intervention Training’ is mentioned. Wonder what had been done prior to the TASER application?
As I read it the officer who TASED the lady is also the one who shot her. Let’s see, TASER failure (improper aim?) and then a drive stun – if only one probe hit the lady, the drive stun should lock her up (IF the officer knew what they were doing).
Usually in a case like this if the officers were following contact/cover roles you would expect the other (cover) officer to be the one engaging with lethal force.
The news story doesn’t say anything about what the back up officer was doing throughout this episode. Nor does the news story give a time line between the initial arrival, the TASE, and the shooting. Nor does the story say anything about the distance traversed by suspect or officers.
A lady is dead, two officers’ lives are in shambles and we really don’t know enough to make an informed decision, only a knee jerk reaction.
(SORRY ABOUT THE DOUBLE POST BUT I CUT AND PASTED IN THE WRONG AREA)
This comment was posted on January 4th, 2010 at 6:38 pmYes indeed, I bet that a bacterium like you would love to put two in my face and two in my gut. However, by the time your pudgy eyelids closed the second time, you would have a very difficult time walking , talking, and functioning in the immediate future. I’m no elderly lady, with a pair of sewing scissors you vile obese,overpaid, underworked,tub of butter !
This comment was posted on January 4th, 2010 at 8:35 pmTy Coon… you’d lose that bet. I have no desire to shoot you or anyone else, but know this: if I had to, I’d do it without a moment’s hesitation and without blinking.
Tell the nurses you need your meds now and be a good boy.
This comment was posted on January 5th, 2010 at 12:33 amDear Pro 2 in the Face & 2 in the Gut, No I wouldn’t…I’ve tangled with overweight tubs of Goo before…nothing is easier for someone with my skills ! You need to go back to your union and ask them for better responses to parrot…you are tiring and repetitious in your delusions. As far as meds go, for a person my age , I take nothing and drink very little ( for a wee Irishman ), so , you ought to reveal how many second weapons you put onto perps’ unconscious bodies , how many records you’ve falsified and, of course, how many innocent folks you have put in jail for the simple reason of being a NON FUZZ ! Oh look out …sewing scissors BLAM BLAM….BLAM BLAM !!Nice shots Chandler , very good location and pattern , says Pro 2 in the face & 2 in the gut.
This comment was posted on January 5th, 2010 at 5:11 pmTy Coon… it’s pretty clear you don’t take any meds. Your ramblings suggest maybe you should.
Here are my revelations you asked for: Zero second weapons planted; zero records falsified; zero innocent folks in jail. (Ultimately, that last question isn’t up to me, if you know how the system works.) For the record, I know a lot of criminals who’ve gotten away with their crimes through the years (meaning victims never got justice), simply because there wasn’t enough evidence to put them where they belong. I also know many other criminals who were convicted and their penalty was so minute that they were released from prison and allowed to terrorize new victims.
Now, how about you? How many good cops have you accused of being crooked? How many cops have you judged negatively just because they’re cops? How many cases involving cops getting killed by criminals have you gotten yourself all worked up in a twit over like you have this case? (There have been a lot in the news lately in Washington – bet you’re all over that.) Do you care about justice, or do you just want to atack cops?
This comment was posted on January 7th, 2010 at 4:11 pmDidn’t read a bloody word there Pro 2 in the FACE ! Here’s something though, for you…..Yes, I feared for my life, the life of my fellow officer, the other folks in the home, people nearby, people of Toledo, Lucas County residents, citizens of Ohio, all of America , so, I put two in her face and two in her gut, Ohhh , what a thrill it was !! says TPD blaster of the elderly . Pro two in the FACE & two in the GUT, ( jury foreman) threatens other jurer’s with ” Street Justice ” and ” Police Payback ” , if they do not comply with a sworn police officer. Afraid for their own lives the Toledo jury, made up entirely of elderly ladies , finds Chandler INNOCENT and awards her $13 MILLION in stress related pay and benefits ! LIVE is beautiful in the strange and bizarre world of expendable old lady’s…and the band plays on…
This comment was posted on January 7th, 2010 at 6:20 pmTy Coon… I wonder if you think you’re making any sense? Truly, consider the meds… You can have the last word now… I can’t follow you into your little psychotic world. Bye now.
This comment was posted on January 7th, 2010 at 10:43 pmToledo Police Standards: 2 in the face and gut if worried about sewing scissors from elderly ladies , only 1 in the face and gut if you looked at a cop improperly, 3 in the face and gut if police cannot cut in front of the line at Dunkin Doughnuts, 4 in the face and guts if you park your car off of your own driveway, 5 in the face and guts if you claim a cop is drunk, 6 in the face and guts if you claim a cop is a doper, 7 in the face and guts if you claim a cop is a sexual deviant, and of course…a bullitt riddled body if you claim cops covered up the brutal MURDER of a Nun !! Anything much worse than THAT, your body will never be found….
This comment was posted on January 8th, 2010 at 10:16 amToledo Free Press needs to follow-up and update
This comment was posted on January 12th, 2010 at 1:38 pmthe story and issue!
T.F.P., also should update us all on the Sheriff Telb, situation. He is charged with multiple felonies including, lying to the F.B.I.and manslaughter ! If Telb, was an R or an I, in this felonious mess, we’d be hearing about it DAILY, from the Yellow Blade !
This comment was posted on January 13th, 2010 at 11:07 am